wolfik Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 hi all a friend asked me following.... how is to made to make a conversion of the airfix hawk to a T-45? is it possible actually? many thanks for any help on drawings or good sources. best regards Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LIengineerBob Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 hi alla friend asked me following.... how is to made to make a conversion of the airfix hawk to a T-45? is it possible actually? many thanks for any help on drawings or good sources. best regards Peter Weird :blink: .....I was recently thinking the same thing!! I'd be interested in knowing how difficult it would be to do also. I do know there are a few differences between the T-45 and BAE hawk (I think the foward fuselage on the T-45 is "deeper"?). Hopefully soemone is a little more educated than me on the subject. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Externally you'd have to change the wingtips, extend the vertical stab, add the tailhook and fairing, add the speedbrakes and the smurfs, bulge the main gear door area, and rework the landing gear (esp. the nose gear)...... Internally you'd need a new cockpit. You could probably assemble decals/markings from TA-4 sheets, etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Matt Roberts Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) One interesting possibility - though it won't help you build it now - is the release of Italeris Hawk later this year. Look for more info from Nuremberg (did I spell it right this time?) Since Big I had done an 72nd T-45-like kit a while ago, they may look forward to doing a T-45 eventually in 48th, after they do a Mk 100 series and a Mk 200 series Hawk first, a white and red paint scheme gives me nightmares, all it'd need would be some yellow to turn it into a night terror! Matt Edited February 5, 2008 by Matt Roberts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andre Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Since Big I had done an 72nd T-45-like kit a while ago Let's hope for all you quarterscalers that, if this happens, Italeri will do a better job than in 1/72nd... Cheers, Andre Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G_Marcat_Italy Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 hi allhow is to made to make a conversion of the airfix hawk to a T-45? is it possible actually? many thanks for any help on drawings or good sources. I add myself to the this request: Is there a book, magazine or any other source with detailed drawings? Nobody have never compiled a complete guide to the conversion of the Goshwak? In 1/48 there is the Collect Aire that sell the Goshawk but... in presence of a sticker price of 129 USD the my spider's senses advise me that is better to try a conversion!!!! I hope that before or later the Ginter's series of books will cover this subject. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Hegedus Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Let's hope for all you quarterscalers that, if this happens, Italeri will do a better job than in 1/72nd... Cheers, Andre In all fairness to Italeri, the 1/72 T-45 they tooled is generally accurate for the markings included and the time it was released. The kit just has never been updated with the design changes made during the test program. I don't think they've ever tried to pass it off as a production T-45, only as the first prototype. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G_Marcat_Italy Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 You could probably assemble decals/markings from TA-4 sheets, etc. Absolutely no problems: in 1/48 there are the decals made from MODEL ALLIANCE (set ML489031) that is available without problems around, here is the link at Hannants http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?FULL=ML489031 Think that this set should be born for to flank the model from Collect Aire. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Chladek Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 In a model kit, there isn't all that much common between a run of the mill BAe Hawk and a Goshawk except for maybe the canopy. The gear is different, the wings are different in spots and the fuselage has a lot of lumps and bumps on it in spots. As such, I doubt a T-45 would come from Italeri anytime soon after they did a normal Hawk as they practically would have to approach it as an all new tool. But, I also hope one day we will see it. Until then, best choice (albeit expensive) is the Collectaire kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Walker Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Once upon a time 3rd Wire Models was working on a 1/48 T-45 conversion set. I'm hoping that someday they will release it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gabe Pincelli Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 OK guys, Enough "lurking" for me. Time for me to earn my keep. Here's my take (as a current T-45 instructor pilot, modeler, and avid Hawk/Goshawk enthusiast) on what it takes to make a T-45 from a Hawk: Please note that this is a "quick" list of the major stuff that would be obvious on a model and is not fully representative of the differences between the actual aircraft. -New nose wheel (modified F/A-18 nose wheel would be a place to start). -Entire nose section forward of the wing leading edge is deeper and the nose itself is more round. The bottom of the deepened nose actually angles down from where the wing leading edge meets the nose section (There's actually a pretty big seem there on the real jet since the whole wing can be removed) and reaches maximum depth where the nose wheel drag brace meets the fuselage. Italeri captured the forward fuselage shape pretty well in their 1/72 kit. It’s quite obvious if you put it side-by-side with their Hawk T.1 kit. The top profile of the nose forward of the windscreen is the same as a Hawk, but the tip is more rounded due to the deeper bottom profile. -New main landing gear. Bigger, thicker, longer...basically completely redesigned. -Bigger wheels. Actually, the wheels may not really be much bigger, but the tires are. -Main landing gear attachment points moved outboard approx 10 inches. -Main gear doors completely different in shape. Note: The big main and nose gear doors close after extending the gear, but they are usually seen hanging after the jet is shut down since the plane captains drop them to do the turn-around. -Wing leading edge is slightly more swept than Hawk and wingtips are squared off to accommodate the slats(make the leading edge a straight line from the point it meets the fuselage and tangent to the existing curved wingtip then square off the tip) The Hawk has a crank in the leading edge near the root. Making the leading edge straight from the root takes the crank out and increases the sweep enough to look right to me. -Leading edge slats (we park the T-45 with them up so just scribing the slat in would be the easy way to go). The flaps bleed down fairly quickly after shut down, so slats up and flaps down is the most common condition on deck. -Add the ventral fin, hook attachment fairing and tailhook. (most of this would be pretty easy with some styrene stock, and a shortened Monogram FA-18 tailhook would be convincing enough). -Add speedbrakes to the fuselage sides. (They are not recessed, but actually just lay flat against the fuselage sides when retracted, so some sheet styrene cut to shape with the slots opened up would work OK). -Extend and square off the horizontal stab tips. (8 scale inches or so). -Extend the vertical stab cap approx 10 scale inches. - The Neomega Hawk cockpit would look close enough to aT-45A for anyone but an actual T-45 pilot. The T-45C has two MFD's in place of the gauges. -Martin Baker SJU-17 NACES seats. I think the Black Box ones for the late model Hornet look pretty close, although I haven't seen the Quickboost ones in person. They may be better. I'm sure I left some stuff out, but that should cover the big stuff. Comparing a 1/72 Italeri Hawk with an Italeri T-45 is actually a great reference for the landing gear, doors, forward fuselage shape and tailhook attachment fairing. The Italeri T-45 is actually quite accurate for a prototype, but ONLY accurate for a prototype because it doesn't have any of the aerodynamic mods. (slats, wingtips, extended horizontal stab tips, extended vertical stab, ventral fin, etc) In case you're wondering: NO, I haven't completed these mods on a kit of my own. I got a pretty good start on modifying an Airfix Hawk, but I have decided to sideline that project until the Italeri 1/48th Hawk is released just in case it turns out to be a better base kit to start from. My take on the Collect Aire kit is that it falls far short of portraying a convincing T-45. It looks more like a Hawk with square wingtips to me. The deeper forward fuselage and nose shape in addition to other mods weren't captured at all. I offered CA my assistance when they announced that they were developing the kit back in 1999 or so and they turned me down. Too bad. I think they could've had a real winner with just a bit more research. I have the kit and will use the photo etched fret for the speed brakes and a few other details when I finally get around to finishing one. Don't know what to do with the rest. I hope this helps and doesn't discourage someone from eventually doing a 1/48th T-45. -Gabe P.S. The Model Alliance decal sheet has decals for the jet with my name on it from my previous tour in Kingsville (2000-2002). P.P.S. Someone posted a pic in the following thread of T-45A with side number 250 landing at the California Capital Airshow last year (I think it was "Midnight Storm"): http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index....&hl=Goshawk That's me in the front seat of that jet! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Impatient Pete Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Dang! Keep earned- That is just the kind of detailed asessment many of us have been wanting. Thank you and welcome aboard. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Youngtiger1 Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 (edited) That is some detailed information on the T-45. Collect-Aires did produce a resin 1/48 T-45 but I wonder how accurate it is? Gabe, I remember seeing your T-45 last year. Are you guys going to bring them down again this coming Captial Air Show? If so, I like to take some detail photos if it? If possilbe.... Mike ps; welcome aboard.....to ARC Edited March 1, 2008 by Youngtiger1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G_Marcat_Italy Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Speaking of a T-45's conversion I'm ever asking the same question: ss there a source for scale plans for this aircraft? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathan Mock Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Trying to make a T-45 from a Hawk would be like trying to make a Seafire 47 from a Spitfire Mk.I - it is possible but you'll end up scratchbuilding so much stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iaf-man Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 A 1/48(or even better-1/32!) one will be great! But what about the T-2 Buckeye? :D Sadly neglected? Isaac Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bugfan Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Okay I started on one a couple of years ago and got most of these modifications incorporated into the Airfix kit, then I hit a brick wall, the main landing gear. The MLG is totally different than the Airfix kit, and the Collect-air kit is not much better. Heres a pic showing the nose gear and the Hook/fairing in the rear... The next shot shows the wings and the stabilizers lengthened and the "CRANK" taken out of the wing... Another mod that the wings needed were the prominant vortex generators, seen on the next pic... Theres where I quit, too much time for other projects needed. The front fuse needed to be deepened, the MLG had to be scratch built and the Airbrakes had to be mastered. LOTSA WORK!!! Jack aka BUGFAN Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gabe Pincelli Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 That is some detailed information on the T-45. Collect-Aires did produce a resin 1/48 T-45 but I wonder how accurate it is? Gabe, I remember seeing your T-45 last year. Are you guys going to bring them down again this coming Captial Air Show? If so, I like to take some detail photos if it? If possilbe.... :) Mike ps; welcome aboard.....to ARC Hi Mike, Yes, we are actually planning on bringing two T-45's this time. Hopefully will have one "A" and one "C" so you can see the differences. (Not too many visual external differences but the cockpits are way different. ) Anyone who is planning on going to the show PM me and we can come up with a time to meet at the jets and get you guys some walk-arounds. Gabe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gabe Pincelli Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Okay I started on one a couple of years ago and got most of these modifications incorporated into the Airfix kit, then I hit a brick wall, the main landing gear. The MLG is totally different than the Airfix kit, and the Collect-air kit is not much better. Heres a pic showing the nose gear and the Hook/fairing in the rear... The next shot shows the wings and the stabilizers lengthened and the "CRANK" taken out of the wing... Another mod that the wings needed were the prominant vortex generators, seen on the next pic... Theres where I quit, too much time for other projects needed. The front fuse needed to be deepened, the MLG had to be scratch built and the Airbrakes had to be mastered. LOTSA WORK!!! Jack aka BUGFAN Hi guys, Thanks for the warm welcome. Jack, Looks like you got a really good start there. The part that has slowed me down the most is figuring out how to do the new lower forward fuselage. Capturing the shape really isn't that hard, but incorprating the wheelwell with detail and engineering it so I can cast it in resin makes it a tough one. I forgot to mention the vortex generators. The T-45 has many more than the Hawk and they are spaced much closer together on the T-45. One other thing I failed to bring up is the wingtip navigation lights. They basically look like they were stuck on the T-45 as an afterthought, not nicely faired in like the Hawk. What Hornet kit did you get the nose strut from? It looks pretty convincing on there. I really want to finish a 1/48 T-45 badly. I will do it but just can't see putting out the effort until I know whether the Italeri kit is a better Hawk to start with. If their 1/72 kit is any indication, I think the 1/48 kit will be better that the Airfix offering. Good luck if you continue the conversion. When I get mine going again I will post pictures. Gabe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scot M Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Dang! Keep earned- That is just the kind of detailed asessment many of us have been wanting. Thank you and welcome aboard. X2!! Full Afterburner, Scot M. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk55 Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Gabe, Some really great information you provided. Nothing like getting it from some who actually "rides the horse". I also would like to have a T-45A or C model for the collection but did not want to spend the $$ for the Collect Aire kit. I got me a 1/72 T-45 off of E-Bay really cheap and thought I might use it as a reference/guide to convert the 1/48 T1 Hawk I have in the stash. Your info is appreciated. I'm not into model contests but would like the model to resemble the actual aircraft in features and details as much as possible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bugfan Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 (edited) Thanks for the comments Gabe. Its sat for about a year now, every once in a while I pick at it a bit but the MLG has got me stumped!!! The front leg is stolen and modified from a Monogram kit. THANKS for the wakeup on the marker lights, I would have totally forgotten them. OH YEAH, and WELCOME to ARC, glad you are here and hopefully can contribute some more!! SOOOOO, how would you deepen the forward fuselage area? HUH HUH HUH, inquiring minds wanna know! WELCOME SIR!! Jack aka BUGFAN Edited March 1, 2008 by Bugfan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Walker Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 (edited) Lots of great information here. I'm just hoping someone will put out a decent T-45 in 1/48. It's a great looking aircraft. And even nice looking in these markings: Edited March 4, 2008 by David Walker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Youngtiger1 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Gabe, I'll be seeing you at the Show and take some photographs of your cool jet I always loved the T-45. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fgf1012 Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 I grew up in Kingsville, and the NAS was only a few miles from our house. I use to watch the Cougars, then the Skyhawks and Buckeyes fly overhead. I also remember when the Red Arrows performed at NAS Kingsville to showcase the new "Navy Trainer." I really hope a 1/48th scale T-45 and a TA-4J are released. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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