S-3B Hoover loadout query

[CraigSargent]

Is/was the Mk.82 with BSU49 Ballute AIR tail cleared for the Hoover's internal weapons bay? Or would a modified variant be more likely - something deployed as a mine? Want a loadout for my Hoover weapons bay and have a load of PP Aeroparts Ballutes sitting here looking forlornly at me.

Plan is to team 4 of them with 300 gallon tank; and either Captive SLAM-ER/Harpoon/SLAM (not sure which yet), or CATM-65 Maverick for a training loadout.

[Joe Hegedus]

Is/was the Mk.82 with BSU49 Ballute AIR tail cleared for the Hoover's internal weapons bay? Or would a modified variant be more likely - something deployed as a mine? Want a loadout for my Hoover weapons bay and have a load of PP Aeroparts Ballutes sitting here looking forlornly at me.

Plan is to team 4 of them with 300 gallon tank; and either Captive SLAM-ER/Harpoon/SLAM (not sure which yet), or CATM-65 Maverick for a training loadout.

The USN/USMC does not use the BSU-49, so the short answer is no. The MK-16 Paratail used on MK-62 mines, though, has the same shape as a BSU-49. Whereas I doubt you'd see mines loaded along with a missile; you might see TERs loaded with more mines. Collin would be the real answerman for this.

[CraigSargent]

Thanks for the reply Joe. Just to clarify, the USN/USMC does not use the BSU-49 - is there an equivalent retarder in the Naval branches? I have pics of USMC Hornets with operational loads of dumb munitions with the AIR type rear end loaded.

Is the difference between the -49 and -85 the size of warhead they attach to?

Would the dumb and guided munitions not even be used on a training hop together (as these would be CATM missiles)?

Just want to clarify, appreciate the help.

Edited January 19, 2009 by CraigSargent

[Joe Hegedus]

Thanks for the reply Joe. Just to clarify, the USN/USMC does not use the BSU-49 - is there an equivalent retarder in the Naval branches? I have pics of USMC Hornets with operational loads of dumb munitions with the AIR type rear end loaded.

Is the difference between the -49 and -85 the size of warhead they attach to?

Would the dumb and guided munitions not even be used on a training hop together (as these would be CATM missiles)?

Just want to clarify, appreciate the help.

For MK-82-type weapons, USN/USMC use the BSU-86 high-drag/low-drag fin. It is similar to the MK-15 Snakeeye, but the petals are shorter and broader and the notch that is seen on the edges of the snake petals is closed in to make a rectangular hole on the -86. There are still some MK-15 fins out there, but from what I've been told they all belong to the mine folks now. MK-62 mines are based on the MK-82 warhead, and can use either the MK-15 fin, the BSU-86 fin, or the MK-16.

The BSU-85 fin is used on the MK-83 type bobm bodies, and is physically larger than the BSU-49 accordingly.

I can't say for sure, as I didn't work the S-3, but from what I've heard about mines I don't think you'd see anything but mines and maybe tanks.

[Reddog]

I think after AFC-284, the S-3 lost it's mine authorization so no mines after 99/00 time frame.

Standing by to be corrected though.

Reddog :blink:

[cvnf14p3ordy]

I think after AFC-284, the S-3 lost it's mine authorization so no mines after 99/00 time frame.

Standing by to be corrected though.

Reddog

We used to build a lot of Mk 36 DST or Destructor's which is an air launched mine and carried by the S-3B. A 250/500 or 1000 lb GP munnition with I think a Mk 75 modification kit which made it the 82, 83 or 84 GP bomb mine capable. On a side note, if you're going to load anything on the wing hardpoints, VS-21 which was the Viking in my CAG carried Mk 20 Rockeye quite a bit. They'd load two on a TER on each station. Just a thoght.

Edited January 20, 2009 by cvnf14p3ordy

[CraigSargent]

Good info - thanks. Did you ever load Mk.20 internally? i.e. is an internal load of Mk.20 with wing tank and AGM-65 a legitimate load?

[Reddog]

Cluster bombs are wing only, either parent rack or up to three on a TER. Depending on what time frame you are doing will determine what the authorized load can be, after 99/00 the load out's got more restrictive due to AFC 284 and the removal of the ASW gear.

Reddog

[DonSS3]

Here's some photos of P-3 weapons, most of which, I believe were cleared for use by the S-3, except for, maybe, the Mk.56…

http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b229/DDonSS3/P-3%20Weps/

This is a Mk.40 (essentially a Mk.82 Snakeye with Hi-drag fins)) Destructor:

[Jennings]

is there an equivalent retarder in the Naval branches?

Having served in the USAF, I'm pretty sure they don't need a retarder in the Navy or the Marines.

(ducking under my desk now, but you left it WIDE open for me)

J

[CraigSargent]

Maybe I should simplify this question more. I don't want to use torps, but need something suitable in the internal bays of my Hoover. What is good to go?

[Reddog]

Here's some photos of P-3 weapons, most of which, I believe were cleared for use by the S-3, except for, maybe, the Mk.56…

http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b229/DDonSS3/P-3%20Weps/

This is a Mk.40 (essentially a Mk.82 Snakeye with Hi-drag fins)) Destructor:

Those are Mk 36 Exercise Destructors, Mk 82 bomb body with Mk 15 Mod 6 Snakeye fin. For a live destructor there would be differnt markings and would be painted totally different.

For something in the bomb bay besides Torps, the only thing currently cleared is MK 82 (or BLU-111/BDU-45's) with either retard or non-retard fins.

HTH

Reddog

[DonSS3]

Thanks for the correction Reddog. I'm just an AW not an AO…

[Fuji]

OB KB - I have this direct from VS-30 when I was working with them on S-3 Maverick Plus upgrade features. The most common load out for these Vikings (prior to LANTIRN) was the ARS on the port wing hardpoint, A Maverick on the Starboard, Torpedoes in one bay and Mk.82s with the BSU-86 fins in the other. Sometimes the Torps were not even loaded.

This load out was done for the camera and was not standard

[CraigSargent]

Those are Mk 36 Exercise Destructors, Mk 82 bomb body with Mk 15 Mod 6 Snakeye fin. For a live destructor there would be differnt markings and would be painted totally different.

For something in the bomb bay besides Torps, the only thing currently cleared is MK 82 (or BLU-111/BDU-45's) with either retard or non-retard fins.

HTH

Reddog

Great info thanks. Guess I will just have to scratch some BSUs for some Mk.82s given that there aren't any current pattern ones available aftermarket.

Can I ask which fusing would be most correct for those Mk82s?

[Reddog]

Can I ask which fusing would be most correct for those Mk82s?

Any combonations of M904, FMU-139 and/or nose plugs would be legal.

Reddog

[cvnf14p3ordy]

Great info thanks. Guess I will just have to scratch some BSUs for some Mk.82s given that there aren't any current pattern ones available aftermarket.

Can I ask which fusing would be most correct for those Mk82s?

One other thing, when the Tomcat was retired the S-3 community began flying with the F-14's LANTRIN pods. S-3's were flying LANTRIN with LMAV's and became another Strike asset to the strike group commander in theater.

[Andre]

Depending on what time frame you are doing will determine what the authorized load can be, after 99/00 the load out's got more restrictive due to AFC 284 and the removal of the ASW gear.

Interesting tidbit there. If this isn't an inpertinent question as far as operational security is concerned, could you elaborate how the removal of the ASW gear would impose restrictions on the external carriage of cluster bombs?

If anything my wager would be that the decrease in weight would open up the envelope more.

TIA!

Andre

[Spongebob]

If anything my wager would be that the decrease in weight would open up the envelope more.

Not necessarily. Removal of gear can really hose up the CG envelop on an aircraft (in the S-3 there's a lot of weight that was removed in the forward part of the jet). In addition, the removal of the ASW gear meant that missions went away, which means training goes away (handling the mk46 is a PITA) in addition to other systems in the aircraft no longer being supported.

My guess about the mk20 in the weapons bay is that you don't want one of those puppies to pop open in an internal bay.

Spongebob

[Andre]

Not necessarily.

Thanks!, that does clear things up.

Cheers,

Andre

[DonSS3]

Great info thanks. Guess I will just have to scratch some BSUs for some Mk.82s given that there aren't any current pattern ones available aftermarket.

Can I ask which fusing would be most correct for those Mk82s?

I have no clue what model fuse this is, but here's a closeup. Note the arming wire that goes over the top of the weapon. It's pinned to a hole near the center (chordwise) of the pylon. If there's a tail fuse in the weapon, you get a nearly identical wire going up to the pylon from the tail. The fusing is purely mechanical. When the bomb drops, the wire comes out allowing the arming vane to spin, this arms the weapon. Part of the postflight inspection was insuring the arming wires were hanging on the pylon, no wire meant the weapon didn't arm.

As a side note, these were weapons used during a mining exercise. They were painted orange to make it easier for the mine guys to find, thereby allowing them to score our mine drops for accuracy.

Edited January 21, 2009 by DonSS3

[volzj]

Now this is what a thread on a modeling website should look like.

Great info, well presented. Kudos all around guys.

[Collin]

Is/was the Mk.82 with BSU49 Ballute AIR tail cleared for the Hoover's internal weapons bay? Or would a modified variant be more likely - something deployed as a mine? Want a loadout for my Hoover weapons bay and have a load of PP Aeroparts Ballutes sitting here looking forlornly at me.

Plan is to team 4 of them with 300 gallon tank; and either Captive SLAM-ER/Harpoon/SLAM (not sure which yet), or CATM-65 Maverick for a training loadout.

Here we go:

No ballutes in the bomb bay. We rarely carried BSU-86 or older 'snakeyes' MK-15 4-fined MK-82's in the bomb bay, they had to be utilized with the "belly band", a special band that was secured to the fin and the aircraft to prevent it from opening in or near the bomb bay when released. Once the weapon was sufficiently away from the aircraft, the belly band would pop off allowing for the 'snakeye' fin to deploy. A VERY VERY rare loadout, only saw it once during a MINEX with MK-62 Quickstrikes onboard.

Other than the MK-46 or MK-50 Torp, only other weapons normally carried internal are standard MK-82 slick with M904 nose fuzing. The S-3 was not FMU-139 capable. Standard loadout for any Viking working the Gulf was (snif) 2 or 4 MK-82 TP in the bomb bay.

Torps...only time I ever carried were TORPEX's.... 2 x MK-46 and/or 1 x MK-50. I've dropped a bunch.

ROCKEYE only on the W5/W6 wing stations. I wish they were cleared internal, I tried as a JO in the fleet to make it a legal load, but in hindsight (read NAVAIR)...not a chance. We could utilize either the MK-339 mechanical or the FMU-140 electronic nose fuze on the MK-20.

Mix and match what you like on the wing. SLAM-ER, AWW-13, AGM-65E/F, TER with MK-82's or ROCKEYE, Drop tanks or the lovely Buddy Store. Typical pre-Maverick loadout was an ARS on W5 (left wing station) and a TER with ROCKEYE or MK-82 on W6 (right wing station). Post Maverick Plus was a AGM-65E/F on W6 and of course the ARS on W5.

The S-3 was cleared for MK-83 slant loaded on a TER (dropped a bunch of those on the dirt mound near Guam) and parent rack mounted MK-84 (dropped some of those in Hawaii back in '97). The -83/-84's were very rare and those munitions were normally were given to the S-3 squadron when the CAG Gunner was cleaning out the ships magazine and/or there were some non-TP munitions to get rid of shore side.

Looking forward to seeing your finished Hoover. Shoot me an email if you have a specific question, hope the above made sense.

Cheers

Atis

[Platypus]

Mix and match what you like on the wing. SLAM-ER, AWW-13, AGM-65E/F, TER with MK-82's or ROCKEYE, Drop tanks or the lovely Buddy Store. Typical pre-Maverick loadout was an ARS on W5 (left wing station) and a TER with ROCKEYE or MK-82 on W6 (right wing station). Post Maverick Plus was a AGM-65E/F on W6 and of course the ARS on W5.

Thanks for the intel, but I must ask: ARS stands for?

[Murph]

ARS stands for?

Airborne Refueling Store

Regards,

Murph