Janissary Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) Hello, in the late 1960s, my father in law was a crew chief in Iceland working on F-102s. From time to time, he tells me about his days over there including the day to day life, the training, pilots, the interception missions etc. It is very interesting to hear how much detail he remembers. He gave me the red patch below, which he found in the stash from his days in the military. I recently decided to make an F-102 for him as a gift. Without choosing the kit or the scale, I put this Christmas as my target deadline. After talking with him, I understand he prefers a smaller kit so I decided to go with 1/72 as opposed to my normal 1/48 scale. After researching a little bit early this September, I saw Hasegawa was pretty much the only game in town. This old kit has raised details, and the part breakdown and fit are not all that great. Considering the time this kit was engineered, it was probably a great kit back in the day. Anyway, I ordered mine from Ebay early September, and it arrived about 2 weeks ago. Right after I ordered, I read over here that Meng is coming up with a new tool 1/72 F-102 (probably recessed details, which I am quite particular about)! I was a little disappointed because now I am stuck with this rather old kit. However, I don't think I could realistically get this new kit anytime before November, so I am just happy that at least the Xmas deadline justifies this Hasegawa build. I know how dangerous it is to put a deadline in this hobby (risking rushing through, burn out etc), but the rather few number of parts gives me hope that I might be able to do it. After studying a few online builds, I had to make a decision: either keep the raised surface details, or eradicate all and rescribe! I chose the latter. So now I am in the process of sanding off the entire surface. I am using a 400 grit sandpaper and some steel wool. As you see, there are large gaps I now have to fill. I am not sure what to use: Tamiya white putty, epoxy, super glue, layers of surfacer, melted plastic sprue? Since I will try to rescribe, I fear some of the fillers will be too fragile and crack. Is there a putty/filler that can be easily rescribed? I keep reading about Bondo (3M Blue tube?), but I am not sure how it would compare to Tamiya white putty as far as rescribing goes. I hope I can manage this rescribing and riveting project. I have never tried this sort of full rescribing, so I am sure what to expect, except for the need for lots of patience... Edited June 16, 2013 by Janissary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kurnass77 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 A tread to follow!!! I also find various putty fragile to rescribe and with the tendency to jump away when remove the Dymo tape that crossing a filled joint;for this reason I prefer the CA glue with talc powder. But this is only my opinion. Cheers, Gianni Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JesniF-16 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Janissary. I would definitely recommend CA glue for a nice hard surface to scribe over... Get some 320 grit wet/dry sandpaper and DRY sand, followed by some 400 wet/dry... CA glue actually sands pretty easily IMO and it won't chip or flake off when scribed. Looks like you have taken on a hell of a project, good luck. HTH /Jesse Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Thanks for your help. I eventually tried a combination of things. Now I am in the process of detailing the surface. Here are some progress shots. I used melted sprue (sprue in liquid cement and lacquer thinner) for bigger sections: Used various enamels both as fillers (yellow) and for inspection of the filling/sanding process. Definitely lots of flaws are revealed: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 I have recently started the rescribing process. I first mark the lines I am going to rescribe. Then, I use both dymo tape and a thinner, more flexible artists' tape to create guides. Using a sewing needle I go over the lines several times until a sufficiently deep line is carved out. Then, using various other tools (saw, needle, UMM rescriber etc.), I deepen the lines. At times, I use Hasegawa's tritool templates for panel covers. Once done, I sand down all the lines, wash it under running water using an old toothbrush to get the dust out, and sometimes use Tamiya extra thin cement to iron out imperfections along certain panel lines. I have found all of this to be a long process but not too bad at the end. Next, I will create rivet details using Radu's riveter. Now the goal is to keep it going for the other parts of the aircraft. We'll see how that goes. I am not sure I can pull this off for the entire frame. Especially after Meng's great looking F-102, I am not sure if I can keep my mojo up with this model. I mean the Meng model looks very good in terms of the recessed details, overall options etc. Am I really stuck with this old kit, or shall I just move on and order the new Meng? I cannot decide. I figure I won't be able to finish this until X-mas anyway. I just cannot make up my mind. It takes some mental discipline not to be swayed by this new alternative. What say you? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrblujet Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Stick with the Hasegawa kit. I appears that you are doing a good job so far. Stay away from the images of the Meng kit - it will only discourage you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tripio Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Hi Janissary, just continue what you have started, it really looks quite OK. Nice progress, nice rescribing. Just show the people that you are able to work with old classic models and update them to the standards of nowadays. I would bet that you can do it. Keep up the good work. Regards,Laz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bdt13 Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Nice work so far - your's is going to be a lot better than the one I just finished. What are your plans for the weapons bay, and the rocket launch tubes in the doors? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) June 16 Update: After realizing that Hasegawa's nose cone was so out of shape, I lost all my interest in this build and eventually put an end to it! In the meantime, I was drawn to Meng's new kit and ended up obtaining one. With that, I plan to resurrect this thread. I decided not to start a new topic to keep my "F-102" attempt all in one place, so from this point on I will share my build of Meng's kit. I have to say I am very impressed by Meng's offering. The plastic is very nice and the part breakdown looks very reasonable. I removed and cleaned all the parts I will be using. There is very minimal flash, but I still file and run the edge of the xacto blade to make sure all edges are clean. After thinking about what markings I wanted to do (including all the new AM decals from Caracal, Fundekals and a bunch more), I finally decided to stick with the Pennsylvania ANG! So I will be using Hasegawa's decals. Seems like they were printed in 2007 so I hope they will not be fragile. They are still very thick classic Hasegawa decals, so I anticipate some issues especially with those on the black paint. Question: I studied a number of pictures, prior builds and the instructions I have, and I am still unsure about the color of this aircraft. Hasegawa instructions call for a metallic color (silver). Many previous builds seem to have used the ADC gray. In pictures I studied, I see a slight metallic sheen, but most of these are not clear: Pic1 Pic2 Pic3 Does anybody know for a fact what color I should use? I was contemplating a mix of gray and metallic (similar to the sheen I tried to replicate >>here<<), but wanted to ask nonetheless. Thanks in advance. Edited June 16, 2013 by Janissary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KursadA Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) These aircraft were definitely painted in FS16473. There were a few silver lacquer painted examples in some units; but I have never seen a photo of a PA ANG F-102 that was painted in anything other than FS16473. Edited June 17, 2013 by KursadA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shagohad Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 What do you plan on doing with the old Hasegawa kit? I have an interest in it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted August 2, 2013 Author Share Posted August 2, 2013 (edited) Kursad, thank you for the color info. Shagohad, unfortunately, the hasegawa kit is long gone (I tend not to hold onto models I know I won't build). Just a small update. Since my last post, A.C. Acikgoz was kind enough to send me an excellent decal sheet that includes the PA ANG markings I was interested in. The print is top notch and looks like it will be a pleasure to work with. I wanted to now share with you how far one can get without any putty or filler. First of all, the tools I used in this build thus far: Out of these, I mostly used the UMM razor (not the scriber) and a simple sewing pin for all my scribing work. The limited set of tools I had to use should tell you how good the plastic was. I have been quite happy. I would still recommend careful dry fitting (and small surgeries) here and there. In the following pictures, I expect liquid primer and small amounts of tamiya putty to be enough to tidy up the surface. However, there are some portions such as the wide gaps at the wing fuselage joint, and the front part where it extends to the bottom that will need extra attention. Edited August 2, 2013 by Janissary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted August 2, 2013 Author Share Posted August 2, 2013 Since I decided to pose the weapons door closed, I did not use the bay. I had originally glued it in place for structural support, but later decided it was interfering with the door a little bit so took it off. Throughout the rescribing and assembly process, I sanded the surface various times with Micromesh 1500 and 2400 under running water. I believe I will do more of this to tone down some of the pronounced rivets and panel lines. They are definitely way out of scale. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KRI76 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 That's one impressive rescribing job! Really tidy, clean, uniform. Congrats! /Kristian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Floyd Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Having the old school Hase kit in the stash, seeing this just confirms my theory that I need to get shot of it and get the Meng one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rom Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 wow! that scribing is just insane! very nice work! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) Thank you guys. Just to make sure, Meng's kit already had the recessed panel lines and rivets. All I did was to deepen them with the tools I showed above. Even if recessed, I believe this deepening is important for the wash to later go on consistently. Sometimes hard sanding creates shallow recesses, so mine is an attempt at preserving the details rather than creating them. Incidentally, I am at Portland's Cascade Station (near the airport). I can see F-16s and F-15s from where I stand right now!!!! I think this is the 142nd FW Oregon ANG. Is there a way to visit this airbase? I can't find any info on their website (http://www.142fw.ang.af.mil). I was down at Seymour Johnson early June and called them to see if they had public visit days/hours, and they said those are cancelled to the current sequester. Perhaps the same things here? Edited August 5, 2013 by Janissary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DFN Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Very impressive work, I'd like the way you do all the scribing ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 (edited) Thank you DFN. I have been slowly making progress in this build. I have been busy filling all the gaps and cracks. For the small gaps (shown in the above pictures), I used Tamiya liquid primer. For the wings-fuselage joints, I used Vallejo's plastic putty for the first time and I really liked it a lot. You can swipe it clean with a dampened qtip. I read that it is not very good under sanding (which I did not try), but to me it seems to dry hard so should not be too difficult to sand. I masked the corners of the windscreen with round pieces of tape. I think I am ready for a coat of primer. Edited August 28, 2013 by Janissary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted August 29, 2013 Author Share Posted August 29, 2013 (edited) And here she is after a coat of primer (Surfacer 1200 + MM enamel primer mix) and rubbing with an eye glass cleaning cloth: I am now at a junction point. Part of me wants to try a variety of weathering techniques (preshading, hair spray chipping, post shading). Some of these like the hair spray and chipping would be new to me. On the other hand, part of me feels like this is not the right model to do a lot of weathering on. I am also tempted to finish this rather quickly. I have not seen an extremely weathered F-102 from PA ANG. In fact, I would greatly appreciate if you could share any pics of them if you have any. I am working off of only a few I found online: http://www.aviationphotocompany.com/img/s8/v77/p1463557830-3.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:146th_Fighter-Interceptor_Squadron_Convair_F-102A-90-CO_Delta_Dagger_57-0847.jpg http://jets.for.ever.pagesperso-orange.fr/images/F-102%2014.jpg https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iJXRiSLItBs/TXfkVqdR76I/AAAAAAAABxo/dEQhNxYLUTk/s320/F-102A+146+FIS+112+FIG+Isham+RIS.jpg Only on the following one did I find some chipping and weathering: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8534/8693901702_03332237c6_z.jpg Do you have any suggestions as to how I could proceed that is both exciting and accurate? Edited August 29, 2013 by Janissary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon50EX Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) 1) Fix that unsightly gap where the leading edge of the wing joins the fuselage. I think some Mr. Dissolved Putty and some careful sanding will fill it in. Dont throw any gloss paint on the model until that area has been patched up and re primed. 2) 99% of the time, F-102s were immaculately clean once passed down to the Air National Guard units. There are the exceptions, and regular USAF squadron F-102s got a bit tatty looking, but any kind of ANG weathered F-101, -102, -106.... Just looks wrong. Neatness counts, in this case. I suggest you check out Asao Shirai's F-102 build over at the Hyperscale gallery for inspiration. His 72nd stuff is simply incredible. HTH, david Conveniently located 2 miles south of Portland International Airport...... Edited August 30, 2013 by Falcon50EX Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 1) Fix that unsightly gap where the leading edge of the wing joins the fuselage. I think some Mr. Dissolved Putty and some careful sanding will fill it in. Dont throw any gloss paint on the model until that area has been patched up and re primed. 2) 99% of the time, F-102s were immaculately clean once passed down to the Air National Guard units. There are the exceptions, and regular USAF squadron F-102s got a bit tatty looking, but any kind of ANG weathered F-101, -102, -106.... Just looks wrong. Neatness counts, in this case. I suggest you check out Asao Shirai's F-102 build over at the Hyperscale gallery for inspiration. His 72nd stuff is simply incredible. HTH, david Conveniently located 2 miles south of Portland International Airport...... David, thank you for this info and feedback. I will keep my weathering to a minimum per your explanation. As for the wing leading edge, are these not movable slats? Your remark prompted me to check out some closeups and indeed I didn't see any gaps. All along, I thought these must be movable parts so I intended to create those gaps(!). Now I see I might be wrong. Can somebody confirm this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 Good to see ARC back up running again. Here are are a few updates: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 And after the decals and an oil wash... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roadrunner Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 GREAT ! :woot.gif: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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