UK/US SpecFor Hips in November's AFM

[ChernayaAkula]

The November issue of AFM has pics of both an UK-used Mi-8 (confirmed) and an allegedly US-operated Mi-171 (no spellie!).

Trigger said in the thread on the CSAR-X decission that one of the reasons the Chinook was chosen was their ability to operate in high altitudes, such as Afghanistan.

Is this why US and UK Special Forces use the Mi-8 and Mi-171 in Afghanistan? The ability to operate in higher altitudes?

I've thought about reasons as to why they'd use Hips and a friend of mine thought it could be because of that very ability. Is he right?

[Hajo L.]

Hmm, what about the possibility that these helos are CIA-operated?

HAJO

[ChernayaAkula]

I thought about that too.

There's another, very interesting article in that issue on planes and helicopters flown by civil contractors for the US government. There's a picture of a CIA-operated Mi-8MTV with the (FAA, I think??? Is it FAA???) registration N25308.

So, CIA could be the case with the US Hip, but with a British one???

[empeter]

I thought about that too.

There's another, very interesting article in that issue on planes and helicopters flown by civil contractors for the US government. There's a picture of a CIA-operated Mi-8MTV with the (FAA, I think??? Is it FAA???) registration N25308.

So, CIA could be the case with the US Hip, but with a British one???

Registration info for that particular aircraft.

There are at least four other MI-17's registered to the same company (LLH Services, LLC) as well as a large number registered to R.J. Harroff Business Associates, LLC of Bethesda, MD. There is also a picture of a CIA aircraft in which the Reg. number appears to be N353MA, which is not a valid number

I read somewhere that the CIA purchased an MI-8 in 2001 to support their activities with the Northern Alliance. The NA aircraft were in such bad shape that the CIA was afraid that they might lose some people by accident. I would imagine that the use of Hips has as much to do with the availability of spare parts and trained support personnel in that area of the world as by anything else. It's probably easier, and cheaper, to buy an aircract over there than it is to buy one in the U.S. and ship it over. There are probably more Hips than Chinooks on the used helicopter lots in that area of the world. All of them flown by a gray haired old lady who only flew it to church on Sundays.

Edited November 10, 2006 by empeter

[Greg Buckley]

UK use Mi-17's in Afghanistan. They are used for in support of a few taskings out there and were chosen because the Mi17 is perfect for the environment, is robust enough and also pretty cheap to operate.

I spent 5 months out there with them last year in support and had a couple of pretty good jollies out in them, even a trip out as a door gunner. Some of the most spectacular scenery flying around the Hindu Kush mountains! No real difference to stock apart from ECM lumps and bumps all over (Basically the same as seen on Sea King and Lynx etc. Orange Crop IIRC), UK type flare dispensers as seen on Hercs, GMPG's on pintle's and a shed load of armour plates around the fronT which gives them a different stance on the ground (Nose Lower than Normal).

The US operated ones were normal stock, in a variety of coulours and schemes, normally with the clam shell doors removed and a net in place. Also they had the new variant with the rear ramp.

Hope this helps!!!

[Dave Fleming]

No real difference to stock apart from ECM lumps and bumps all over (Basically the same as seen on Sea King and Lynx etc. Orange Crop IIRC), UK type flare dispensers as seen on Hercs, GMPG's on pintle's and a shed load of armour plates around the fronT which gives them a different stance on the ground (Nose Lower than Normal).

Do they have UK markings?

The other thing to consider is that Hips are less obviously 'Western' helicopters

[Greg Buckley]

Do they have UK markings?

The other thing to consider is that Hips are less obviously 'Western' helicopters

No UK markings whatsoever <_< Cant think why for the life of me!!

[Chappie]

I recall reading that the CIA paid cash for their Hips. Ah, the world of Black Ops. <_<

Chappie

[Matt_S]

Does anyone have more info on this?

Matt <_<

[Cobrahistorian]

We actually have a battalion that flies the Mi-8/17 to train foreign militaries. No major clandestine role there, just training. I got to see one up close back in July, but unfortunately I didn't have my camera then.

Jon

[Trigger]

Trigger said in the thread on the CSAR-X decission that one of the reasons the Chinook was chosen was their ability to operate in high altitudes, such as Afghanistan.

Is this why US and UK Special Forces use the Mi-8 and Mi-171 in Afghanistan? The ability to operate in higher altitudes?

Can't believe I missed this first time around... oh yeah, now I remember, I was in P-Cola on 11.10.06. Sorry Moritz.

US and UK use the Mi-8/-171 because it's low profile. It's a common site in those skies (and Iraq as well) and doesn't attract as much attention (or bullets).

[empeter]

We actually have a battalion that flies the Mi-8/17 to train foreign militaries. No major clandestine role there, just training. I got to see one up close back in July, but unfortunately I didn't have my camera then.

Jon

6th SOS

The interesting thing is that they have an emblem with a big red star in it.

Edited August 27, 2007 by empeter

[grandadjohn]

The ANA(Afgan National Army) uses them also

[janman]

Extremely interesting thread. Thanks for the info.

[Cobrahistorian]

I will say, I've NEVER seen blades cone like that on takeoff. That helicopter wasn't carrying ANYTHING and it looked like it took every last bit of power to get it up in the air. Kinda scary!

Jon

[Trigger]

6th SOS

slightly O/T - the UH-1N on the left hand side of the photo with the white tail bands - is that the "new" scheme I've heard about?

Edited August 27, 2007 by Trigger

[chopperpilot71]

I interview with a company called CSC group for a contract job in Afghanistan on Thursday to fly Mi-24 and/or Mi-8's to teach Afghan army pilots, I asked why they are flying Hinds and Hips instead of other types and they said they are much cheaper to operate, in that environment they are better suited to their needs and they already have plenty of them and access to more. Their are 4 Mi-8's kept here at Fort Rucker as of 3 weeks ago and several more in Fort Bliss Texas to train special forces guys in them. As far as having better high altitude capability over the Chinook, not sure but I would be surprised if it did. Rich.

[RotorheadTX]

slightly O/T - the UH-1N on the left hand side of the photo with the white tail bands - is that the "new" scheme I've heard about?

No, don't think so - more likely a commemoration of the 1st Air Commando.

They flew Allison-engined P-51's in CBI during WWII.

[Trigger]

I didn't mean the stripes (sorry for the poor communication on my part, I cited them to distinguish between the two UH-1Ns), I meant the camouflage (but thanks anyway for offering up a possible explanation for the stripes). I looks similar to the old Leopard scheme, but AFM reported earlier this year that one of the 6th SOS's Hueys received a new camouflage but the image was small and it was hard to tell, but it looked more like a variation on the old scheme and and I was wondering if that was it.

Edited August 27, 2007 by Trigger

[Matt_S]

Found this on Wings Palette:

http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww3/v/40/3/0/1

Matt

[PBoilermaker]

Hips are used extensively in Afghanistan to resupply US FOB's and installations. Although some are said to be operated by OGA, they usually came in with Ukrainian or Russian crews during the day.

I don't know who crewed the ones that only came in at night, but yes, the ANA do operate Hips.

-Mike

[Julien (UK)]

One of the main reasons the UK uses them is lack of other helos, they are cheap to operate, pleanty of spares and they operate well in the Stan.

Julien

[umgriz]

I didn't mean the stripes (sorry for the poor communication on my part, I cited them to distinguish between the two UH-1Ns), I meant the camouflage (but thanks anyway for offering up a possible explanation for the stripes). I looks similar to the old Leopard scheme, but AFM reported earlier this year that one of the 6th SOS's Hueys received a new camouflage but the image was small and it was hard to tell, but it looked more like a variation on the old scheme and and I was wondering if that was it.

Yeah trigger all four UH-1N's here are painted thusly. I have a buddy who works on em and since he is a -130 guy, they have a running joke about how clean those hueys are kept. Apparently the big boss in the unit has a special place in his heart for the huey. He has mandated that they be kept indoors when not flying and washed and polished so that they look new. It is really crazy, cuz I've never seen gloss camo before! My friend says whenever they have to go tdy the standing joke is that all they need is a case of windex and a box of paper towels.

Cheers

[Matt_S]

Registration info for that particular aircraft.

There are at least four other MI-17's registered to the same company (LLH Services, LLC) as well as a large number registered to R.J. Harroff Business Associates, LLC of Bethesda, MD. There is also a picture of a CIA aircraft in which the Reg. number appears to be N353MA, which is not a valid number

I read somewhere that the CIA purchased an MI-8 in 2001 to support their activities with the Northern Alliance. The NA aircraft were in such bad shape that the CIA was afraid that they might lose some people by accident. I would imagine that the use of Hips has as much to do with the availability of spare parts and trained support personnel in that area of the world as by anything else. It's probably easier, and cheaper, to buy an aircract over there than it is to buy one in the U.S. and ship it over. There are probably more Hips than Chinooks on the used helicopter lots in that area of the world. All of them flown by a gray haired old lady who only flew it to church on Sundays.

Any idea what color paint was used on this?

Matt