Steve N Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 (edited) Hi All, I'm normally strictly a WWII aircraft builder, but I won the Revell USS Arizona in a raffle. I'm told the kit is reasonably accurate, so I'm considering slapping it together as a quick build just to put on the shelf. I'd like to build her as she appeared on the morning of Dec. 7..the color info I've been able to find says blue upper hull and superstructure, light gray fighting tops, natural wood decks, and now the experts are saying the tops of the main turrets were bright red. Can anyone confirm, and give me some FS numbers and any other tips (like the colors of the anchor chains, launches, and other details?) Thanks! Steve Edited February 8, 2007 by Steve N Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Might want to ask this question on steelnavy.com Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 (edited) Hi Steve, I haven't researched the colors as thoroughly as the dedicated warship builders since my involvement with the Arizona is with the survivors, but I'll tell you what I do know. On that fateful morning she was painted in the "Measure 14" twotone scheme of ocean gray(called "5-0") overall up to the height of the top of the superstructure masses, and very light haze gray(called "5-H") above that point. 5-O would apply to all metal items such as anchors, chains, etc since they were on the lower levels. IPMS Stockholm would have better crossreferences, but a photocopied chart I have says 5-O would be similar to PollyScale 505332, and the 5-H is allegedly 505330, or ModelMaster 2105 (French Dark Blue Gray in the MM expanded color line). Although it seems too dark to me personally. If anyone can tell me a good MM equivalent for the 5-O I'd lvoe to know!! I've read some references claiming the decks were stained dark blue, but the survivors have unanimously confirmed to me that they were indeed bare wood at that time. Not sure about the red upper areas on the turrets, but I've attached this photo I took last December at Pearl Harbor of one of our survivors pointing out his battle station on the large model of the ship at the Visitors Center, and it clearly shows the turrets without the catapaults to have the red. One other thing to watch for if you want simple accuracy that doesn't appear in the history books often: on the Revell model it has two antiaircraft guns (part #11) to be installed next to and slightly forward of the #3 turret, just next to the stairways headed up to the elevated deck area around the smokestack....the round tubs had indeed been installed, but the guns themselves were never installed. It was assigned work that was never completed. I hope my description makes sense...it's the only two part #11's to be installed on part #15, the aft deck. EDIT: I just noticed you can see the empty gun tubs in question in the photo above! So the model shown is correct. I hope this helps, and good luck! Andrew Desautels Secretary, USS Arizona Reunion Association Inc. Edited February 8, 2007 by Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve N Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 Thanks Andrew..that's just the info I was looking for! :) I figured if anybody would know, you would. Do you have any more photos of that model that you could send me? There are a few pics of the unveiling on the Honolulu Star-Bulletin's website, but the photos mainly concentrate on the vets (and rightly so! ) The red on the #1, #2, and #4 turrets is supposedly a recent discovery..aparently each battlewagon was assigned a color based on its division, as an ID for freindly aircraft. Thanks again! Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 (edited) I took a few others I can dig out, not that they're professional quality by any means, especially with the flash on the plexiglass. Only thing on that model I really have any big questions with is the shades of blue and light gray...I really wish I could nail exactly what the shades in question looked like for certain. I may end up poking around SteelNavy.com forums sometime for better painting insight, as the survivors, through no fault of their own other than being human, all have differing memories of the specifics of paint shades. Edited February 8, 2007 by Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Randy Wise Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Hey Steve, I have the Revell kit as well. You're right it is pretty fair, but to do it justice you really need to get the Gold Metal Models photo-etch set. As for colors, you're in luck. Modelwarships.com (the ARC of model ships) just did a feature on a bunch of Arizona models. Check it out. You'll even see the Revell kit in here. Look under the February 5th update. Randy http://www.modelwarships.com/index1.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Thanks for the headsup, Randy! Fairly diverse interpretations of the darker gray color among the models, but I like all of them better than the colors of the large model at the Arizona Visitor's Center pictured above. Definitely. Thanks again! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kelly Quirk Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Might want to ask this question on steelnavy.com Trust me, not a good idea. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rich Mathsen Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Might want to ask this question on steelnavy.com FYI, that is one SURE way to start a brawl over there! For what it's worth, the folks who say they have proof the battleship were in blue with painted tureet tops of differing colors say that they will publish their findings next year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Philp Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Here is another pic of the model at Pearl. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Nice one, Philp! Thanks! My only complaint about that model is that it's just too...well, pastel-y. *sigh* Needs a tougher-looking camouflage blue-gray. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve N Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 (edited) Thanks for all the tips, guys! I get the impression that the interpretation of the dark gray is the naval equivalent of the "Was Lou IV Blue?" debate! SN Edited February 8, 2007 by Steve N Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Barr Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 This tells you about the red turret tops and the blue camo scheme on the new model they rolled out at the Arizona Memorial that replaced the one that has been there for many years http://starbulletin.com/2006/12/07/news/story04.html Regards Jim Barr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Randy Wise Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Lots of good info here guys. I don't know about all of you, but I don't usually follow color charts to a "Tee" when painting model ships. The big boats weather in the salt water environment under the blazing sun. I just use the color chips as a guide, but mix my own shades. I'm happy with that. Randy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Randy Wise Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 QUOTE(DutyCat @ Feb 8 2007, 04:46 AM) Might want to ask this question on steelnavy.com Trust me, not a good idea. Sorry, just one more post on this thread. Great one-liner Kelly. I did witness one of these "interactions" and it was most entertaining. Randy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Sorry, just one more post on this thread. Great one-liner Kelly. I did witness one of these "interactions" and it was most entertaining. Randy LOL...lemme guess, was it akin to the Tomcat/SuperHornet threads here? :) Man, the article linked above refers to one of the guys I know...had no idea he had anything to do with the ship's paint! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Walker Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 LOL...lemme guess, was it akin to the Tomcat/SuperHornet threads here? Seems like every area of the hobby has their individual territories to defend. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Shouldn't be surprised; wonder what it would be for cars/automotive? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Walker Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 The exact shade of Ferrari Red probably. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Not bad. Probably true. How about, "Do whitewalls look fantastic, or do they look sissy?" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Hey, folks, I'm reviving this thread for those who still have any curiosity on the ever-debated final paint scheme of the USS Arizona. I wrote with one of the Survivors, and although his wife does the emailing, his mind is sharp as a tack, and he certainly doesn't look his age. Here's what he had to say regarding the shade of blue on the model on the previous page of this post...and about the red turret tops: "Hi Andrew Don remembers the ship painted kind of a battleship gray with a blue tint. Not nearly as blue as the model. He does not remember the top of number one two and four turrets painted red and he asked John Anderson if he remembered that and he also said no. Everyone has a different idea but Don said he scraped and painted on the foremast and could look down on # one and two turrets and cannot remember them painted red Take care" Then I asked about the light shade on top, which I figured would be an off-white light gray...but apparently it was fairly close to white: "Hi again Yes on the white mast tops. Don says they were a gray white. More white then anything. He said he used to scrub them." So, I guess the red turret tops will always be debated 'til the end of time, as some survivors think maybe, and others swear they weren't there. Who's to know? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Randy Wise Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 So, I guess the red turret tops will always be debated 'til the end of time, as some survivors think maybe, and others swear they weren't there. Who's to know? Thanks for this Andrew. In my humble opinion this closes the debate. The guys that want to argue back and forth about the turret top colors were never on the Arizona. But the real heros who were there have given us the proof we need. Case closed. Randy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Yep...at least, it solves the blue issue for me, mostly...but the trouble is, another survivor I know who had access to the paint lockers insists the red paint was there, and he recalls it was used! Sheesh...makes the Tomcat vs Hornet thing seem tame. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 (edited) @#$% double post...sorry! :) Edited February 16, 2007 by Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tracy White Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 On that fateful morning she was painted in the "Measure 14" twotone scheme of ocean gray(called "5-0") overall up to the height of the top of the superstructure masses, and very light haze gray(called "5-H") above that point. 5-O would apply to all metal items such as anchors, chains, etc since they were on the lower levels. Sorry to revive such a dormant thread, but it was just referenced on another site and I need to add some updates and corrections. Measure 14 is incorrect, the color calls are incorrect for Measure 14, and the final determination has NOT been made as to what paints Arizona was coated in on December 7th. Measure 14 was OVERALL 5-O Ocean Gray, no light gray. Arizona was painted in some variation of Measure 1 as far as we know, and possibly a temporary scheme titled "Measure 2 Modified." We know for a fact that she was Measure 1 from about June until October November when she was involved in a collision. By that point the Measure 1 main color of 5-D had been discontinued and a new color of 5-S Sea Blue ordered as a replacement. The main sticky point is that we do not know when painting of 5-S started at Pearl Harbor, some cruisers were painted into it from Mare Island stock in August and September, but I have a memo from late September where Pearl Harbor Navy Yard is stating that they had just received the new formula for how to mix 5-S. It is a very murky subject at this point with good points on both sides of the argument. I'm sorry for those who just want to build a model, but if you also want to "do it right" you're either going to have to wait or go with 5-D and say "1941" and leave it at that. The research I've done and documents uncovered are posted to http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/S19-7 (S19-7 was the Navy's file code for camouflage) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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