Mig-21s in Afghanistan

[Falcon053]

I took these shortly before I left Afghanistan. These are at a "petting zoo" that is there on the base I was at. Also included were asorted AA guns, a couple of tanks, and some other cool stuff. More close up shots available if requested.

Duane

[David Walker]

Great photos! I'll bet Raymond will jump in here with some of his soon too.

[Karl Sander]

I know that petting zoo

I most definitely do NOT know anything about any MiG which may or may not have had its red star removed by a sawz-all and even if I did, I'm sure it wouldn't be decorating a squadron bar somewhere.

[ChernayaAkula]

Fantastic pics! Thanks for sharing those!

[Su-34]

Sad...

Edited October 6, 2007 by Su-34

[pollie]

More close up shots available if requested.

Do you perhaps have a close up of the lefthand maingear bay of the MiG-21UM? I am looking for serial numbers (factory serials) of these aircraft, and the MiG-21UM has a small plate with that number in the beforementioned gearbay.

The single seaters have a small plate on the lefthand forward bulkhead in the nose gear bay.

Interesting to see, the first single seater is a former USSR-machine! The red stars and former bort still showing through the paint.

There used to be a large dump of MiGs and Sukhois at Bagram, but these aircraft have been scrapped and that is most unfortunate to put it mildly.........

[Toad]

Great pics.....thanks for sharing ! Tanks and other cool stuff, eh ?

One thing you have to admit...the -21 is sure one sexy aeroplane !

[Raymond]

oh goody!!! ausome pics!

if u want i can post info & pics in the morning of what u photographed :)

[mungo1974]

Did you liberate a piece of Mig to put in your Hobby/Model room?.

Id have thought about it had i been there!

Does the military frown apon it servicemen/women bringing such war bootie home thesedays?

[Falcon053]

Do you perhaps have a close up of the lefthand maingear bay of the MiG-21UM? I am looking for serial numbers (factory serials) of these aircraft, and the MiG-21UM has a small plate with that number in the beforementioned gearbay.

The single seaters have a small plate on the lefthand forward bulkhead in the nose gear bay.

Unfortunutly I didn't get that close-up, sorry. When I head back over there in about three years I'll keep that in mind though. :wacko:

This is the only shot of that area...

It was interesting to see that the Russian writing was still visable on all three Migs...

As far as taking something...nope. The military is big time cracking down on people bringing that sort of stuff. I looked for a little something, but I figured the twenty pounds of dust that was on me coming home would be enough. Besides, others had been there long before me to take stuff...

I did think about thaking these, but they were just a little big!

Though there was one thing there that was in great numbers...

Rest of the "petting zoo"...

Duane

[imatt88]

falcon,

Where were you located? I was at the PRT in Kandahar, then the Kandahar/Tarin Kowt road, then Sharana.

I saw lots of junk around Kandahar and Bagram, but we were never allowed to get close to anything. The only pics I have is of an derelict Mi-24 Hind outside of Sharana.

Anyway, cool pics!

Cheers, Ian

[Collin]

I know that petting zoo

As soon as I opened these photos.... I said the same thing. Boy, those look familiar.

Atis

[the_baphomet_00]

guys:

what about these things?

what are they?

bombs? :D

[Raymond]

mig "375" is quite an old mig: these were part of a batch delivered ~1979, and originally wore red and yellow roundels. its wearing the standard 'sand' export camo, as seen in the ME and somalia.

these aircraft were based at bagram for air defence, and were an 'elite unit' at the time - the rest of the air force was still operating Su-7s, Il-28s Mig-17s, and would not see deployment of mig-21bis until later in the 80s

a pic of an aircraft from the same batch, dressed up for a display (note the R-60s):

heres a pic of some mig-21s in better days at mazar-i-sharif training base...

'72' is an interesting one, as it is clearly a former soviet example, its afghan designation used to be "31 something', indicating it probaby changed into afghan hands mid 80s.

a common misconception is that the soviets just left their equipment behind, and the afghans came along and picked it up. this occurred to replace lost aircraft, most of Afghanistans aircraft were prepared as a specific export series, with soviet machines used to fill any 'gaps' that appeared.

hope my ramblins help add some life to the petting zoo :)

[janman]

Nice pictures, Ray. That's actually a nice camo.

[pollie]

mig "375" is quite an old mig: these were part of a batch delivered ~1979, and originally wore red and yellow roundels. its wearing the standard 'sand' export camo, as seen in the ME and somalia.

these aircraft were based at bagram for air defence, and were an 'elite unit' at the time - the rest of the air force was still operating Su-7s, Il-28s Mig-17s, and would not see deployment of mig-21bis until later in the 80s

'72' is an interesting one, as it is clearly a former soviet example, its afghan designation used to be "31 something', indicating it probaby changed into afghan hands mid 80s.

Bort 72 is a MiG-21bis-LASUR, while bort 375 is a SAU.

The Afghans also operated the MiG-21PF, I think two are visible on the Mazar-i-Sharif picture. I think these were the first MiG-21s in Afghan service, and not the bis from Bagram. They also received some PFMs.

The last picture is a Su-22 or Su-22M2 (or secondhand ex-Soviet Su-17).

[Raymond]

yep the PF was the first mig-21 to be operated by Afghanistan, sorry i was referring to the 322nd IAP being the first to operate the mig-21bis.....other squadrons continued to operate the PFs until the mid 80s before they recieved latter variant migs

yea, tis a su-22M3 though it would be a nice photo to post with the pilots :)

Edited October 7, 2007 by Raymond

[Skull Leader]

yep the PF was the first mig-21 to be operated by Afghanistan, sorry i was referring to the 322nd IAP being the first to operate the mig-21bis.....other squadrons continued to operate the PFs until the mid 80s before they recieved latter variant migs

yea, tis a su-22M3 though it would be a nice photo to post with the pilots

ahh, but is it a 22M3, or a 17M3? With that guy on the right in the way, we cannot say for sure... and I'm sure Russia replaced more than one of Afghanistan's fitters with one of their own

[Aggressor Supporter]

Interesting pics Duane. Thanks for posting these.

[Raymond]

ahh, but is it a 22M3, or a 17M3? With that guy on the right in the way, we cannot say for sure... and I'm sure Russia replaced more than one of Afghanistan's fitters with one of their own

the tails a give away :D 17m3, has a small sloping tail, the su-22M or Su-22M3 have the double delta kink ;)

afghan fitters were a funny one: they were give Su-17m2s (IIRC only country outside soviet union to, skull can u confirm? :D )

su-22m/m3 seem to be ex soviet, while the m4s were produced specifically

heres a pic form mazar-i-sharif in the 90s, serving under gen. dostum

heres a rare colour golden oldie :D

Edited October 8, 2007 by Raymond

[Laurent]

Wasn't the Su-22M3 only operated by Hungary ? Aren't the the Su-22M and Su-22M3 externally identical ?

a common misconception is that the soviets just left their equipment behind, and the afghans came along and picked it up. this occurred to replace lost aircraft, most of Afghanistans aircraft were prepared as a specific export series, with soviet machines used to fill any 'gaps' that appeared.

Such thing could explain why Egypt had plane that looks like a MiG-21 PFS (the one with the Nil Valley camo and an NMF spine) when the type has never been exported AFAIK perhaps ?

Edited October 8, 2007 by Laurent

[yardbird78]

Nice photos, but it sure is sad to see any military "warrior" in such derelict condition.

Darwin

[Skull Leader]

the tails a give away ;) 17m3, has a small sloping tail, the su-22M or Su-22M3 have the double delta kink :D

gah! I knew about the tails and I didn't even stop to think! Silly me!

afghan fitters were a funny one: they were give Su-17m2s (IIRC only country outside soviet union to, skull can u confirm? :D )

Here's where the headaches begin... First of all, The Aerofax book and the Squadron book don't agree on what a "Su-17M2" is! (The squadron book tries to call it a fitter J while the aerofax book calls it a fitter D. Now, given the amount of time and research Yefim Gordon put into this book, I'm rather inclined to believe him over those tools who do the books at squadron. In Squadron's defense, their book was written at a time when we probably did not yet have access to all of the info on the jet like we do now.

Having said that, the Aerofax book isn't terribly inclusive on the matter either! It mentions that Afghanistan recvd. "Su-17s, Su-20s, Su-22M3s, UM3s, and M4s" without listing specific variants of the earlier models, and he only lists a few serials for each. Nevermind the fact that getting solid info on Afghanistan's airforce is already very hard to do... and most of us consider the Gordon book to be the bible on the matter!

Adding to the confusion, the book says earlier on that the Su-20 (which is merely an export version of the Su-17M) were only sold to Poland, Egypt, Syria, and Iraq... so where did Afghanistan's come from?? Were they simply re-designated Su-17Ms? Or did one of those states give some up to the war-torn country?

Back to the Su-17M2s... The Aerofax book says 268 M2s were built, but they don't specify where all of those went. The export version of the M2 (the Su-22 sans suffixe) existed in far smaller nuimbers (only 90 airframes) also no listings of who got them. Since Russia seemed to be a big fan of offering up their 2nd-hand gear to other countries (they apparently offloaded most of their early-model swing-wing fitters to other nations as they geared up to the Su-17M3 and M4) that makes it even harder to keep track of who got what. It's entirely possible that they had several of EACH (Fitter Ds AND Fitter Fs) sitting right next to each other...

although finding a photo to back that up probably does not exist (you'd need to be able to see the engine cross-sections of the two side by side to notice the difference).

ok, I've spent too long looking this stuff up, it's past my bedtime! :)

What was your source for that info, Ray? I'd be interested in cross-referencing it with the Gordon book. You know I'm always looking for more fitter info

Edited October 8, 2007 by Skull Leader

[Skull Leader]

Wasn't the Su-22M3 only operated by Hungary ? Aren't the the Su-22M and Su-22M3 externally identical ?

Close! it was MOSTLY operated by Hungary. 59 M3 airframes were built, but it isn't specified how many were given to Hungary and where the others went. It was only in production for about a year before they upgraded to the M4.

the Su-22M differs from the M3 in that the M has a shorter tailfin. Otherwise the two are identical externally.

[Raymond]

hey skull great post!

from my collection it seems Afghanistan diddnt get su-20s, only su-17m2's (as in pic below) I vaguely remembering reading that Russia initially operated 17m2's in Afghanistan....though i cant find where i read it!!!

if that was the case would probably mean they just gave these to the afghan air force. i think the reason they diddnt get su-17m2D or 'Su-22 sans suffix" is because that used mig-23 engine IIRC - which Afghanistan diddnt have.

The Military Balance, 1985-1986 mentions a squadron of "fitter C's" - i belive these to refer to the su-17m2's as theres been no photographic evidence of Su-20s.

funnily both su-17m3:

and su-22m/22m3:

..feature in afghanistan... i thought '840' might be a one off....but i think your right skull.....i get the feeling Aghanistna got an oddball fleet of bits and pieces, before the days of the su-22m4....

what makes it worse is ive seen photos of su-22m in zelink magizine operatign with the VVS!!!

ive finished writing histories for the su-7 and mig-17, the Fitter family will be a daunting task!!!

Edited October 8, 2007 by Raymond