Condor Mig-25PD

[diegohoff]

I have my Condor´s Mig-25PD yesterday.Cheking the parts I notice that the manufacturer introduces a new (big) belly tank, new wing tips, new undernose antenna, new dual missile supports and Libian decals. I´m not a Mig-25 expert, but I understand the the nose of the PD variant is different from the "P".Well, this isn´t so in the kit.

Can anyone says if this kit is really a PD or is a P whit some diferences?

Thanks

[Ham]

Greetings,

I have the Condor MiG-25P and PD kits. The only differences I see in the two kits is the sprue that has the drop tank, extra missle rails, infra-red search and track (IRS&T, that little thing that goes under the nose) and two little ECM bumps that go on the intakes that comes with the PD kit. The decals are also different.

Regarding differences in the radome and nose area of the two types, I believe the dimensions are the same. I have the book

Mikoyan MiG-25 Foxbat - Guardian on the Soviet Borders book by Yefim Gordon. In it he states that the P types were upgraded to PD configuration after the Belenko defection in September 1976. Based on that, I believe the P's were upgraded to PD and some additional new PD's were made.

From what I can see externally, looking at the photos of both the P and PD types, the main differences are the IRS&T receiver on the bottom of the nose and the two little ECM bumps on the intakes. PD's in also have another antenna on the left fin. I don't know what that antenna is. That's the differences I can see. I'm sure others know of more. It's possible some panel lines may be different too.

I'm working at getting the P together now. I had quite forgotten how big the MiG-25 is, especially when compared to the MiG-21 and -23.

Edited April 26, 2008 by Ham

[Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy]

If memory serves, another important difference is the profile shape of the radome; the original series (P) had a very pointed, conical-shaped radome, while the PD's had a more rounded, ogival(arch-shaped) radome, in addition to the IR set underneath.

[Yuri]

Well, can't comment the sprues (unless someone posts pics), because still haven't got the PD kit (it should arrive in the next couple of days). Anyway, as we said in another recent topic, there are in fact differences between the P and PD nose, but the overall legth is the same. There are some differences in panel lines and the radome/cockpit separation line should be more or less a millimeter more forward (so the radome is shorted and maybe more ogival, the fuselage is longer).

Btw, all the earlies "P" were upgraded to "PD" standard during overhauls and they were so called "PDS". The only difference between "PD" and "PDS" was that the latter couldn't use the 5300 lt drop tank.

Btw, this tank can be fitted instead to recon MiG-25 RB (and all subversions). I just got the Pavla RB/RBT nose conversion, will post pics soon...

[Fuji]

Any Sprue shots you can post? I'd be interested in seeing this kit

[mbittner]

Would someone be willing to scan the 'P' instructions for me, please? The instructions that came with my Condor 'P' kit are incomplete.

TIA!

[Jennings]

So it's correct that the MIG-25P had a more conical, pointed radome than the PD/PDS?? Comparing the Condor kit to the Hasegawa kit, the Condor radome is more conical, but I thought it looked less like photos of MIG-25P's than the 1977 vintage Hasegawa kit.

Yuri, can you say for certain which kit is more accurate as far as the radome shape?

Spaseeboo!

J

[kotey]

After ranaway of Belenko was designed new wersin of MiG-25P - PD (Perekhvatchik Dorabotanniy - Upgraded Interceptor), on this wersion was mounted new radar Sapfir-25 instead Smerch-A, IR seeker, R-60 missiles.

For this reason was redesigned new nose section of fuselage (from Pitot tube to bulkhead number 1) . Starting 1978 to 1984 in Gorkiy was builded about 150 new MiG-25PD.

In the same time in regiment in this time was about 410 old type MiG-25P and this aircraft was upgraded to MiG-25PD level. For this Gorkiy aviation plant maded "upgraded complect's" - this upgrade was maded in two military air repair factories - Nasosniy in Azerbaijan and Dnepropetrovsk in Ukraine.

This aircraft called MiG-25PDS (Perekvatchik Dorabotanniy v Strouy - Interceptor Upgraded in Regiment). During this upgrade was demounted old nose section of fuselage and mounted new nose section, which maded in Gorkiy.

PDS's was not all equail - not all of its had IR seeker and this a/c can't use R-60 missiles (it was early series MiG-25P), also on this a/s during upgrade changing engines R15BD-300, instead old R-15B-300.

On all PDS's can't fitted External fuel tank (old MiG-25P fuselage hav'nt this opportunity).

About lenght - lenght of P fuselage is 21200 millimeters (23400 with pitot tube), lenght of PD(PDS) fuselage - 21370 millemeters (23570 millimeters with Pitot tube). So. yes - PD(PDS) was longer than P to 170 millimeters. And nose section of PD (PDS) fuselage had other panele lines and other radome, than P.

Now about parashute container - lenght of 21200 millimeters - its late series MiG-25P lenght, 1-16 productional series of MiG-25P had early type this container, all other up to last 25's MiG-25P productional series - late type, like on MiG-25PD.

So - Condor make mistake - MiG-25PD had other nose section, its more langht and had other panele lines.

Edited April 27, 2008 by kotey

[Rob de Bie]

Kotey, many thanks for posting this very interesting information! Do you know of any drawings that show the new nose length correctly? My best reference so far is:

MiG-25 Stalowa Blysakawica

Jefin Gordon & Oleg Putmakow

Agencja Lotnicza ALTAIR

Warsaw, Poland, 1994

ISBN 83-86217-02-2

But it shows identical nose lengths for the P and PD(S). Or is the different length caused by the parachute container?

Rob

[alrite]

Which kit would be the most suitable for conversion to a Mig-25RB, with the pavla conversion set ?

[Yuri]

Which kit would be the most suitable for conversion to a Mig-25RB, with the pavla conversion set ?

alrite, the Pavla conversion is intended for the Condor kit... but...

It doesn't address many differences... mainly wings and nozzles... so there's a lot of scratchbuilding anyway...

I'm working with the conversion starting with the Condor "P" kit. After sawing away the nose to replace it with the resin one (this is the easier part) I'm looking at how to use the wings... the wingspan in the RB is smaller (and the cord a little different) and unless you are depicting a really early version, you'll need the straight PD style wingtip fairings instead of the ogival "P" ones. Think I'll do either an RBV or RBT.

Btw, the wings from the Hasegawa MiG-25 seem spot on for an RB... have to study if they can be kitbashed...

[Rob de Bie]

I scanned the P and PD nose drawings from Kotey's Begemot decal sheet instructions, and P and PD side view drawings from 'MiG-25 Stalowa Blysakawica', and superimposed them. I know that drawings are not necessarily 100% correct, but both show exactly identical outlines, with a slightly shorter radome and corresponding longer fuselage for the PD.

Kotey, please tell us if you know more about that darned length difference!!

Rob

[Jennings]

Hi Yuri,

you'll need the straight PD style wingtip fairings instead of the ogival "P" ones.

So those ogival fairings are correct for a P?? I don't see that in photos, but admittedly it is difficult to tell for certain from most angles. I assumed those were incorrect.

Also, did you see my post above about the shapes of the Condor vs. Hasegawa radomes for the MIG-25P??

Spaseeboo!

J

[Yuri]

Hi Yuri,

So those ogival fairings are correct for a P?? I don't see that in photos, but admittedly it is difficult to tell for certain from most angles. I assumed those were incorrect.

Also, did you see my post above about the shapes of the Condor vs. Hasegawa radomes for the MIG-25P??

Spaseeboo!

J

Hi Jennings,

well, seems there are "Ps" with either straight or ogival shape wingtip fairings. As you said it's not so easy to tell from photos. As there were both early and late version "Ps" (with a different tail chute fairing), could be that early ones have the ogival wingtips, while later ones have the straight wingtips.

Regarding the nosecone, here's a comparison between Condor and Hasegawa:

Condor on top. As you can see, the Condor is spot on for a "P", the Hasegawa is more "fat", but looking at the drawings published by Rob, there doesn't seem to be any difference in "fatness" between P and PD, so I'd use the Condor one anyway.

Talking about the RB/RBT instead, I took some pics...

A dry fit of the resin nosecone:

As you can see, the fit is nice... anyway the resin nosecone diameter seems a little smaller than the fuselage (but this could be due to slight warpage caused by the "surgery"), a little tweaking of the plastic fuselage might be needed.

The big problem however in the Pavla nosecone is the fairing...

As you can see, the undernose fairing is too big.. should me more or less half that thickness... some sanding is required to bring it back to the right size. Then instead of trying to scribe new lines think I'll simply use decal cut to size to depict the dielectric area.

Last photo, the wings:

As you can see, Hasegawa wings are spot-on for an RB, so think I'll use them, just need some tweaking to fit it to the Condor kit (the attachment points are of course a little different, but it can be done).

The drawings I used come from "MiG-25", by Archiv Press Kiev.

Edited April 27, 2008 by Yuri

[jose miguel]

Sorry for the question, but the COndor Kit has recessed or raised panels?

José Miguel

[JasonW]

Sorry for the question, but the COndor Kit has recessed or raised panels?

José Miguel

I have the Condor MiG-25P kit and they are recessed, reasonably crisp and on the fine side, not trenches. Overall detail doesn't look bad, although the cockpit looks a little lacking in my opinion.

[Jennings]

The NeOmega cockpit is superb, but designed to fit the Zvezda (?) kit, not Condor. Should go in there pretty easily I'd think (and hope) however.

Thanks for that information Yuri. Any idea if Belenko's airplane was considered an "early" or "late" MIG-25P???

J

[Laurent]

The NeOmega cockpit is superb, but designed to fit the Zvezda (?) kit, not Condor. Should go in there pretty easily I'd think (and hope) however.

Zvezda's kit is a Condor rebox so there won't be any problem.

[lulldapull]

This is a great thread guys! Highly informative. Please keep on contributing and we might actually hammer out our favourite Foxbats some day.

Yuri a great many thanks for taping the pavla nose cone for the RB/RBT and pointing out that giant bulge for the FLIR. Can't believe that Pavla got it so wrong! This means sanding it down to the correct profile would be tricky as it is huge! :o

So in other words out of the box you can do a near accurate Mig-25P........

[Yuri]

Jennings, don't know for the Belenko plane, looked at some photos and seems the fairings are straight, but they are too grainy to tell without any doubt. Anyway, considering the year (1976) and the fact that Hasegawa indeed filmed that plane and made it with straight wingtip fairings, I'd say it's probably a late Foxbat-A.

To answer lulldapull, I don't think the bulge in the RB/RBT nose is a FLIR, but a radio-altimeter. Anyway the bulge is overdone for sure.

Edited April 28, 2008 by Yuri

[Ham]

Since the Pavla "R" conversion does not include the larger afterburners, what are the rest of you guys doing to replace them. I was thinking that maybe 'burners off of a MiG-31 kit might work? Any ideas?

[Yuri]

Since the Pavla "R" conversion does not include the larger afterburners, what are the rest of you guys doing to replace them. I was thinking that maybe 'burners off of a MiG-31 kit might work? Any ideas?

Uhm, no, the style is different. I was thinking about scratchbuilding them using the "P" nozzles as a basis, sanding some detail and adding small plasticard feathers. Anyway maybe there's something in the aftermarket world that looks similar and can be used, must check

Edited April 28, 2008 by Yuri

[Yuri]

Here's the Pavla nose with the fairing sanded down to a more accurare shape, still needs some work...

[haneto]

Very helpful thread indeed.

So Pavla Model’s resin conversin set proved that Condor woulg give up the injection kits of RB/BM version?

And after checking the new injection sprue for PD version,I found the surface of parts is really rough skinned,even worse than short-injection one.

Any one elso think so?

If only Aires or Eduard/Part could do some accessories for Foxbat……

(As Eduard released the 1/48 PE for Revell Foxbat,I think it’ll be easier to scale down to 1/72……And that’s what I’m planning to do with the help from my friends!)

[mbittner]

Can no one help me with MiG-25P instruction sheet copies?