vivkulan Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Hello, Got this kit from Indy Swap Meet yesterday. How is this kit ? I did see Ken Duffy's comparison of this kit with Zvezda and some other kits earlier this year. Just wondering if any of you tried building this kit? (Did you build it Ken?) Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Hello, Got this kit from Indy Swap Meet yesterday. How is this kit ? I did see Ken Duffy's comparison of this kit with Zvezda and some other kits earlier this year. Just wondering if any of you tried building this kit? (Did you build it Ken?) Thanks I built it many years ago - when it first came out. In its day it was the best (ie only) kit of the Mi-8 in 1:72 scale. Its main failing is in the shape of the windscreen - totally straight at the top and totally wrong. If you ignore that and are not too concerned with accuracy, it makes up OK - and it has spawned re-boxings from Italeri, Revell & Zvezda. It has now been superceded by the excellent Hobbyboss kits. Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivkulan Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 I built it many years ago - when it first came out.In its day it was the best (ie only) kit of the Mi-8 in 1:72 scale. Its main failing is in the shape of the windscreen - totally straight at the top and totally wrong. If you ignore that and are not too concerned with accuracy, it makes up OK - and it has spawned re-boxings from Italeri, Revell & Zvezda. It has now been superceded by the excellent Hobbyboss kits. Ken Thank you Ken. Can you post some pictures of your KP Mi-8 model if it is not too much trouble? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I'm currently working on some Mi-8/17 drawings, and have started to notice all the detail differences between Mi-8Ts (early series) and Mi-8MT/Mi-17. The HB kits are far and away the best Hip kits in 1/72, but they haven't replaced the Zvezda and KP kits. There are *lots* of detail differences between the early and late series aircraft. The Mi-8T (early) have a longer intake section. The intakes themselves on the early ones are nearly vertical, where on the -8MT they're angled upward noticeably. The aft end of the dog house is shorter on the -8T than the -8MT. The -8T has round exhaust pipes (and the hole they protrude through), while later ones have an oval shaped exhaust. Early a/c don't have an APU, thus have completely different details on both sides of the dog house compared to the -8MT. The HB kit represents the later style side fuel tanks, while the Zvezda and KP kits represent the early shorter style. The way to tell is the number of hold-down straps and the shape of the cutout for the main gear strut. Early ones have three straps and a wide cutout with curved edges, while the larger tanks have four straps and a parallel-sided cutout. And finally, -8Ts have a starboard side tail rotor, while -8MTs have port side tail rotor. The antenna fit, doppler box, etc, etc vary greatly depending on what airframe you're talking about. I think that getting a really nice Mi-8T (early) is probably easiest by combining the dog house from the Zvezda kit with the HB fuselage. You can change the side tanks as required by chopping off the early ones from the Zvezda kit (molded in place) and putting them on the HB kit if needed. I have the Pavla -8T conversion, and I don't think it'll be nearly as easy as swapping the dog house from the Zvezda kit. Now if only somebody would do a correct Mi-8 winch we'd be all set. J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joachim Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 i'm just finnisching the KP kit. To make an early Mi-8 it's a ok kit (only the front window is way off like Ken wrote). Ciro makes a corrected vacuform one. It doesn't go easy together as the HB kit. But if you want an early Mi-8 i'll go for it. For the later variants (mi-17) i'll go for HB. have fun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 (edited) We did this before...... apart from pointing out the intake differences.... I covered back-dating the HB Mi-8MT into a Mi-8T (using the Pavla resin set) here. I also shortened the fuel tanks and opened up the clamshell doors. The only thing I missed is the shape of the cutout on the three-strap tank..... :D Ken Edited March 24, 2009 by Flankerman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Now if only somebody would do a correct Mi-8 winch we'd be all set.J The HB Mi-8MT kit contains BOTH winches - the early, internal Mi-8T winch and the later, external, Mi-8MT-style winch. Except that HB have got the later winch not quite right - but it can be modified so that the box-shaped winch reel is on the inner end of the mounting arm. The arm lays parallel to the fuselage when not in use - it swings out at 90deg to the fuselage for use. I 'corrected' it on my Afghan Mi-8MTV - it isn't 100% correct - but it looks better than the HB original....... Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mbittner Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Personally, I think it would be great if all this information on the Mi-8s, especially IRT modeling, was collected in one place. Following multiple ARC threads is difficult, at best. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Moore Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Personally, I think it would be great if all this information on the Mi-8s, especially IRT modeling, was collected in one place. Following multiple ARC threads is difficult, at best. Matt- What we could do here is have a new thread started outlining the up-to-date-differences and varaiants, then I can pin it to the Helicopter Forum header (similar to what we did with the AH-1S/F Cobra, helicopter manufacturer's site links, etc). It will always be at the top of the forum and easy to locate. So to that end- Mr Duffy please pick up the white courtesy phone..... Ken, If you could, would you compile the information as a new post? I'll be happy to pin it in the sub-forum header. I tried finding that large thread on the subject from months ago but the forum search engine doesn't want to participate. Cheers, Alby Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Thank you Ken. Can you post some pictures of your KP Mi-8 model if it is not too much trouble? Here it is - minus it's rotor blades. It was built about 25 years ago - and has been gathering dust ever since - it isn't the best model I ever made...... Here are some pics I have just done showing how wrong the KP (and therefore Italeri, Revell, Zvezda etc) windscreen is.... Here's a photo of the real thing to show that HB have got it just about spot on.... The top curve is more exagerated becausec the photo is taken from lower down.... but you get the picture.... ;) Finally, here's a photo of the winch for Jennings........ Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Personally, I think it would be great if all this information on the Mi-8s, especially IRT modeling, was collected in one place. Following multiple ARC threads is difficult, at best. I'm working on detailed Mi-8/17 drawings that will illustrate all the differences. Just give me a bit of time. Two other things I've never seen mentioned: 1. The entire dog house on the Mi-8T is different. The aft end where the APU is housed on the -8MT is shorter on the -8T, while the intakes are longer and have a different angle when viewed from the side. 2. Most Mi-8Ts don't have the emergency escape hatch on the RH side around the fwd cabin window. J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mbittner Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Matt-What we could do here is have a new thread started outlining the up-to-date-differences and varaiants, then I can pin it to the Helicopter Forum header (similar to what we did with the AH-1S/F Cobra, helicopter manufacturer's site links, etc). It will always be at the top of the forum and easy to locate. So to that end- Mr Duffy please pick up the white courtesy phone..... Ken, If you could, would you compile the information as a new post? I'll be happy to pin it in the sub-forum header. I tried finding that large thread on the subject from months ago but the forum search engine doesn't want to participate. Cheers, Alby That would be awesome. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 (edited) The prototype Mil Mi-8 made its first flight on 24 June 1961. It was initially powered by a single AI-24V turboshaft engine and featured the four-bladed main and three-bladed tail rotors ‘borrowed’ from the Mi-4 Hound helicopter. It was redesigned with two Izotov TV2-117 engines and a new gearbox – and later fitted with a five-bladed main rotor. The curved flight deck windows were replaced with optically flat panels to reduce distortion - and it went into production at Kazan and later Ulan Ude - where, to date, more than 11,000 examples have been built. It may be convenient to separate the multitude of types into two basic variants - first and second generation. First Generation - Mi-8T The first generation Hip (to give it its ASCC Reporting Name) has the tail rotor mounted on the starboard side of the tail boom. The engine intakes are longer and are not fitted with particle separators, the turbine exhaust nozzles are circular with thin pipes running along the front and the rear of the engine cowling curves down to meet the tail boom in a continuous line. Some early Hips had shorter fuel tanks with a wider dished cutout for the main landing gear, held on by three straps. Later first gen Hips had the standard, four-strap tank. These Hips bore the designation Mi-8T (for transport) or Mi-8P (for Passenger - with square windows etc) – followed by a range of sub-types – Mi-8TV, Mi-8PS, PA, TS, AT etc etc. Export versions – to India, Finland etc retained the Mi-8T designation. Second Generation - Mi-8MT The second generation Hip made its first flight on 17 August 1975. It had a more powerful engine – the TV3-117MT – which needed a built–in APU. This was located transversely behind the new main gearbox, with an intake to starboard and an exhaust to port – completely altering the contours of the rear engine cowling. The engine exhaust nozzles were changed to oval section and lost the small pipes. A small teardrop-shaped bulge appeared behind the exhaust on the port side. The engine intakes were cut back - in order to fit the dome-shaped particle separators and still allow the roof hatch to open. Finally, the tail rotor was moved from starboard to port, switching from a tractor to a pusher – increasing the tail rotor authority dramatically. On both variants the tail rotor turns clockwise (when looking at the hub). The new version was given the designation Mi-8MT – and again spawned a variety of sub-variants, MTV, MTI, MTPB, MTSh etc etc. Export variants were allocated a new number – Mi-17 – with their own sub-variants. There are lots of other visual differences - but they can be applied to either first or second generation Hips. Things like later style external winches, bigger Doppler boxes under the tailboom, extra fuel tanks, a 'spider' above the main rotor with yellow-painted vibration dampers (seen on both versions above) - etc etc External armour plating around the cockpit plus internal Kevlar armour and scabbed-on armour around the engines is usually seen only on later Hips. There are now 'third generation' Hips - with rear ramps and solid noses, but they are outside this thread. Ken Edited March 24, 2009 by Flankerman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Ken,If you could, would you compile the information as a new post? I'll be happy to pin it in the sub-forum header. I tried finding that large thread on the subject from months ago but the forum search engine doesn't want to participate. Cheers, Alby Alby, I have made a start - posted under 'Mil Mi-8 Hip - The different variants and available model kits'. I'll add some more about the available model when I get some time..... Is this OK ??? Cheers Ken Please feel free to add more - anyone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Moore Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Ken, Perfect, I'll post it to the top right away! Thank you for your help with this. Cheers, Alby Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robertas Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 (edited) Mi-8T and Mi-8MT(Mi-17) also have thats differences Main rotor cap Mi-8T Mi-8MT Mi-8MT have rescue window right side Batteries boxes Mi-8T - right and left side ,other power and intercom sockets Mi-8MT - only left side Edited March 24, 2009 by Robertas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robertas Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Doppler box Mi-8T Mi-8MT IFF antennas Mi-8T - stripped Mi-8MT - bladet Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robertas Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Winch Mi-8T Mi-8MT Exhaust Mi-8T Mi-8MT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robertas Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Fuel tanks Mi-8T - short and thin Mi-8MT, MTV Many Mi-8MT usable old style shorts tanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Just for the record - I think the winch shown immediately above is a very early type only fitted to the very earliest Mi-8T's. Almost all other Mi-8s of all varieties have the other style seen further above (with the large box attached to the top front end). That seems to be the standard on about 99% of them you see. J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robertas Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Jennings ,look that article from Polish magazine. About Mi-8 differences, polish language, http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/vasiliauskasrobertas/Mi8Mi17# Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Robertas, Thanks for the input.... the more the better. From your photos, can I say...... 1. I can't see any difference in the rotor hubs between Mi-8T and Mi-8MT - can you say what it is ??? 2. The Doppler boxes are different - but the later 'square sided' box can also be seen on Mi-8T - so it isn't necessarily a recognition feature. 3. The IFF aerials - early ones are 'Odd Rods' 3-prong type, later changed to a blade-type aerial - but can be seen on both types, AFAIK. 4. The winch. Early type has an internal drum, later one has drum external - but old Mi-8T can have later type. 5. Great photos showing the even bigger external tanks with a 'step' where it meets the cabin heater on the starboard side. 6. Not all Mi-8T's had the 'short and thin' type of fuel tanks - some had the bigger, 4-strap type (but not the even bigger 'stepped' type). 7. Thanks for the photos showing the escape hatch and battery boxes - they are definite differences!! We are building up quite a library on the Hip..... Keep 'em coming. :D Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robertas Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Mi-8T rotor hub upper and narrow, Mi-8MT - lower and wide. Mi-8T with big tanks here http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/vasiliauskasrobertas/Mi8T# http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/vasiliauskasrobertas/Mi8TSAR# Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RCAFFAN Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Could you guys repost your info and pictures into the pinned thread that Albert has created at the top of the board so that we don't lose the stuff...Thanks in advance guys.. Cheers Bruce Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Moore Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 (edited) Hi Guys, I just moved this entire thread to the pinned section, that way there isn't a ton of redundant information posted. Hopefully this will make it easier to find the info you're looking for in regards to Mi-8/17. Cheers, Alby Edited March 24, 2009 by Albert Moore Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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