Flankerman Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Clicky1 Check out the differential rudder deflection in the third photo - replacing the dorsal airbrake. That's it - I'm off to make a Su-35.......... Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Great pictures indeed. Notice that there are some "bumps" on the edge of the wing. Best shown on the wing facing upwards here: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChernayaAkula Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Oh, my, what a beauty! :wub: Drop-dead gorgeous! :wub: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted April 4, 2009 Author Share Posted April 4, 2009 Great pictures indeed. Notice that there are some "bumps" on the edge of the wing. Best shown on the wing facing upwards here: They appear to be the same RWR antenna as fitted to the leading edge slats on the Su-27SM...... ....and Su-30MKM..... A short length of plastic rod, rounded at the end and let into the wing leading edge does the trick..... :wub: Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 No Ken, i am talking about other edge. Not the edge of slats. The horizontal edge of the wing on the pic, not vertical. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
olemanjoe Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 that camouflage pattern is beautiful... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AnthonyWan Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Great pictures indeed. Notice that there are some "bumps" on the edge of the wing. Best shown on the wing facing upwards here: Two guesses..there the slats attach (if you mean the leading edge on port side) or if you mean those bumps near the tip rail, probably some sort of reinforcing point. =Awan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dylan Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 so has sukhoi decided to do away with the canards on thier newer versions of the SU-27. and if so why? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Youngtiger1 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Ken, great link you've got there. It is very nice. I don't know much about Russian jet but it looks like I can make the jet above (Su-35) out of trumpeter 1/32 Su-27B? The only thing I would need to do is make a refueling prob. Is that correct? Anyway, thanks for sharing the link. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MiG31 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 so has sukhoi decided to do away with the canards on thier newer versions of the SU-27. and if so why? It's my understanding that, with a few changes to the flight control system, they decided it wasn't worth the added weight and complexity. The fact that they have TVC installed suggests that that is still considered a useful system, however. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Nice pics ... I really like the grey splinter scheme ... Thanks for the link Ken ... Out of curiosity, Do Flankers have leading edge slats or leading edge flaps ? They look like LEFs to my eyes ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ross blackford Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 :), G'day Gregg, I think LEFs would be a better description than LESs, they're pretty big aren't they? Like on a Hornet. , Ross. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Thanks Ross, I just wanted to be sure there wasn't something there I wasn't seeing ... :) Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted April 5, 2009 Author Share Posted April 5, 2009 (edited) Ken, great link you've got there. It is very nice. I don't know much about Russian jet but it looks like I can make the jet above (Su-35) out of trumpeter 1/32 Su-27B? The only thing I would need to do is make a refueling prob. Is that correct? Anyway, thanks for sharing the link.Mike No..... lots more than that ............ I posted this under the Critique thread - under the 'Su-30 Blue 04 MKM Demo Bird' thread - so it got a bit lost I guess.... From what I have looked at so far..... New cockpit with 2 X large MFD screens. Offset IRST. IFR Probe. New tailboom - lacking the side boxes - but with a few 'bumps' Bigger rudders Twin nosewheels Lack of dorsal airbrake (just cement in place and re-scribe ??) Re-profiled radome - very subtle, but it looks like it lacks the double curvature at the tip. No nose probe. 'Hockey Stick' aerials under nose and tailboom. TVC nozzles. Apart from a few aerials etc - I think that covers it - I have probably missed something really obvious....? There are rumours that the fins are smaller - but I can't see any difference in shape. Ken PS - The biggest job is going to be sourcing those 'slime lights' !!! Of course, you first need to 'correct' the Trumpeter Su-27 by replacing the radome, intakes and canopy with Zactomans excellent conversion set. Then you can start on the above to make the Su-35 !!! Ken Edited April 5, 2009 by Flankerman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted April 5, 2009 Author Share Posted April 5, 2009 Re Slats - or Flaps..... My understanding has always been that a slat is on the leading edge and a flap is at the trailing edge. My dictionary says.... Slat :- A moveable auxiliary aerofoil running along the leading edge of the wing of an aircraft. Flap:- A variable control surface on the trailing edge of an aircraft wing, used primarily to increase lift or drag. In fact the flaps on a Flanker are actually 'Flaperons' - because they perform the function of both flaps and ailerons. As long as we specify 'Leading Edge XXX' or 'Trailing Edge XXX' I don't think I'll lose much sleep over what you want to call them. Berkut...... I still don't get what you mean about those wing 'bumps' - can you be more specific ?? Cheers Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Berkut......I still don't get what you mean about those wing 'bumps' - can you be more specific ?? Cheers Ken Ken, take a closer look at the wing that is pointed upwards here. Now, look at the wingtip rail. (remember to zoom in the picture) There seems to be three "bumps", maybe reinforcing plates or something like that. 2 of them appear to be same size, while the one that is closest to trailing edge looks to be bigger, and with slightly different shape. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ross blackford Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 :), Hello Ken, Many Boeing aircraft have what are called Kruger Flaps on the leading edges of the wings. These are actually the undersurfaces of the leading edges and are hinged on the leading edge and flip forward slightly and down to change the camber of the leading edge of the wing as do the trailing edge flaps for the trailing edge, not just provide a slot for the airflow to flow through. I'm no aerodynamics expert but I gather this produces more lift than slats and slots would and I guess you're right by saying it doesn't really matter what they're called. , Ross. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motty Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 The way it was explained to me by one of my technical training instructors many years ago was that "Slats have Slots" while "Flaps are Flush", so that's how I work out how to refer to them. Therefore, as these surfaces are continuous with the wing, I would call them leading edge flaps. Compared to late model Phantoms (for example) which have a surface which is mounted away from the outer wing and has "slots" between it and the wing, making them leading edge slats. F-111s and Tomcats would be another example. Hope this helps. Cheers, Motty. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 As Motty pointed out, LESs and LEFs are indeed two different devices ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted April 5, 2009 Author Share Posted April 5, 2009 I knew we'd end up going round in circles - but what the heck..... There are slats that have slots and slats that don't - just as there are flaps that don't have slots - and those that do. Most airliners (and the F-111 IIRC) have 'triple slotted flaps' !!!!!! There are slats that move - and those that don't (fixed slats). Some flaps just fold down (Flanker), some flaps travel backwards before folding down (area increasing flaps - Fairey Baracuda) and some flaps that have three chord-wise sections that travel backwards and then separate to form slots before folding down (F-111) The Su-27 has unslotted leading edge slats and plain trailing edge flaps (flaperons). The Su-33 has unslotted leading edge slats - but has triple-slotted, area increasing, trailing edge flaps. The L/E slats on the Flanker are slightly slotted - in that there is a small gap when they are down - Sukhoi claim that the Su27KUB has an 'adaptive wing' - where there is a seal between the slat and the wing - and therefore no slot!! I propose that hereinafter, for the purposes of discussion, we prefix any reference to slats or flaps with the words 'Leading Edge' or 'Trailing Edge' - or their abreviations, L/E & T/E - just so we are all singing from the same hymnbook. Ken - who is now in a flap and slightly slotted !!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted April 5, 2009 Author Share Posted April 5, 2009 Ken, take a closer look at the wing that is pointed upwards here. Now, look at the wingtip rail. (remember to zoom in the picture) There seems to be three "bumps", maybe reinforcing plates or something like that. 2 of them appear to be same size, while the one that is closest to trailing edge looks to be bigger, and with slightly different shape. Ah!! I get what you are looking at now......... They do indeed look like strengthening plates between the wingtip and the missile launch rail. Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
davetur Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 The way it was explained to me by one of my technical training instructors many years ago was that "Slats have Slots" while "Flaps are Flush", so that's how I work out how to refer to them.Therefore, as these surfaces are continuous with the wing, I would call them leading edge flaps. Compared to late model Phantoms (for example) which have a surface which is mounted away from the outer wing and has "slots" between it and the wing, making them leading edge slats. F-111s and Tomcats would be another example. Hope this helps. Cheers, Motty. If you want to be more general, they are all (leading edge, trailing edge) called "high lift devices". The F-104 and some late MiG-21s had "blown flaps" (with no slots), on which the flow is energised by engine compressor air, more effective but more complex than multi-slotted flaps. II Warld War split flaps (like on the Sptitfire or FW.190) were nothing more than airbrakes, with minimal effect on the lift coefficient, still they were called flaps. To be practical, if everybody understands that a slat is always on the leading edge and never on the trailing edge, why should one care to call it a LE flap? One word, one meaning. Davide Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motty Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Well, we were only talking about leading edge devices so that's what my comment referred to, not both. I realise that there are no such things as trailing edge slats but there are different types of leading edge devices. And why worry about what to call them? Well because that's how I've done it for my past 20-odd years working on aircraft and it's difficult to stop. :lol: In fact, the first aircraft I worked on, the 707, had both types of devices on the same wing (why give them separate designations if they're the same thing?) and I can assure you that if I talked to the guys at work about leading edge slats on a Hornet they would scratch their heads and look at me funny. Leading edge flaps however...... If it's too confusing, I will try and stop using my "working on the real thing" terminology when I leave work and only use my "talking about models" terminology when I come here. :P Cheers, Motty. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 (edited) Thanks Motty, I only asked because there is a difference ... I didn't mean to cause a stink ... I don't know why it did either, no one was derogatory towards the aircraft in question, no need to "Raise Shields!" ... Gregg Edited April 7, 2009 by GreyGhost Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Hingtgen Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 (edited) To be practical, if everybody understands that a slat is always on the leading edge and never on the trailing edge, why should one care to call it a LE flap? Because they're different and both exist and are common---a slat is a slat, and not a LE flap. An LE flap is an LE flap, and not a slat. There's several different types of LE flaps, but none are slats. Planes can have one, the other, neither, or both. The 727 and 737 have both LE flaps and slats. The 747 has 2 different types of LE flaps (they have Krüger LE flaps inboard and variable-camber LE flaps outboard). The F-16 and Flanker have the "simplest" type of LE flap which has no specific name AFAIK, they are structually just like an aileron or elevator--they simply pivot up and down along a simple hinge, nothing more. The DC-8 also has closable slots, which are darn-near unique among aircraft AFAIK. There's doors (or flaps) just behind the leading edge which open up on the upper and lower surface of the wing, creating a slat-like shape that allows air through--but the LE itself is fixed. Very much like a fixed slat that you could "close the gaps" in cruise. Then there's droops! (actually, from what I can see, the Crusader's LE flaps are droops, just "mildly"---the Trident has very obvious/extreme droops) Droop=LE is hinged at the bottom, allowing downward-movement only, but also allows more downwards movement than if it could move both directions----being hinged at the bottom would normally create a gap on top when flap is lowered, but there's skin/panels etc that overlap when retracted, but fill the gap when lowered. An LE droop is kind of like a Hornet's aileron---there's a "shroud" piece of skin above the hinge/slot area. Edited April 7, 2009 by David Hingtgen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.