Moche Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) Im going to begin with my Academy Berkut kit but I havent fount technical drawings of the Su-47 Berkut. They aren't on Airwar.ru and could not find them somewhere else... Could someone help me get them ? Thanks Edited June 17, 2009 by Moche Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MiG31 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I'm confused. Are you referring to the Su-27 Flanker? I know Academy produces a 1:48 kit of that, but on the other hand, you also seem to be crossing it with the Su-47 Berkut forward-swept-wing demonstrator. (The latter is nicknamed the Firkin by NATO.) I'm only aware of 1:72 and 1:144 kits of that aircraft. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moche Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 I'm confused. Are you referring to the Su-27 Flanker? I know Academy produces a 1:48 kit of that, but on the other hand, you also seem to be crossing it with the Su-47 Berkut forward-swept-wing demonstrator. (The latter is nicknamed the Firkin by NATO.) I'm only aware of 1:72 and 1:144 kits of that aircraft. My fault! I mean the Su-47. That is indeed the forward-swept demonstrator. Do you have any idea where I can find technical drawings of it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rom Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 hello i only found this: http://www.suchoj.com/ab1953/Su-47/riss/Su-47_03.jpg http://quicklink.all.googlepages.com/Sukho...rkut-3views.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...outline.svg.png bye Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moche Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 helloi only found this: http://www.suchoj.com/ab1953/Su-47/riss/Su-47_03.jpg http://quicklink.all.googlepages.com/Sukho...rkut-3views.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...outline.svg.png bye Thank you very much Rom! But I meant drawings that were more specific and detailed. With the correct panellines and measurements. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kfmut Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Measurements? Man, you are joking on us ;-) could you believe that somebody can freely take measurements of f-35, for example :-D As far as I know "berkut" programm were cancelled, so maybe once day this beauty could appear in Monino AF museum and MAYBE after that we get more info... Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moche Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 Measurements? Man, you are joking on us ;-) could you believe that somebody can freely take measurements of f-35, for example :-DAs far as I know "berkut" programm were cancelled, so maybe once day this beauty could appear in Monino AF museum and MAYBE after that we get more info... Cheers Haha! didn't know it was still so top secret man. The Berkut has been out for a couple years now...thought there would be more info on it already Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sebastijan Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 As far as I know "berkut" programm were cancelled, so maybe once day this beauty could appear in Monino AF museum and MAYBE after that we get more info... Well IIRC Su-47 was Sukhoi's own technology demonstrator and not a programme in itself like PAK-FA is... The idea was started back in the USSR days but the finalization was done by Sukhoi... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Measurements? Man, you are joking on us ;-) could you believe that somebody can freely take measurements of f-35, for example :-DAs far as I know "berkut" programm were cancelled, so maybe once day this beauty could appear in Monino AF museum and MAYBE after that we get more info... Cheers No, that is not true. It is not canceled, and it was always just a technology demonstrator, as Seb pointed out. The newest pictures i have of it is from 21 march 2008 (day after my b-day. ). They are showing the extra large weapon bay on underside, maybe for testing of the weapons that will end up on Pak-Fa. The bay was seen as early as middle/beginning of 2007. So, i presume it is still going strong. What kit are you using? There is no Academy Su-47 kit in 1/48 that i have ever ever seen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moche Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 No, that is not true. It is not canceled, and it was always just a technology demonstrator, as Seb pointed out. The newest pictures i have of it is from 21 march 2008 (day after my b-day. :) ). They are showing the extra large weapon bay on underside, maybe for testing of the weapons that will end up on Pak-Fa. The bay was seen as early as middle/beginning of 2007. So, i presume it is still going strong. What kit are you using? There is no Academy Su-47 kit in 1/48 that i have ever ever seen. AAAH! Thank you very much! Can I ask you where you got the second picture from? I am going with the 1/144 trumpeter so no 1/48. I am working on a MiG-23 (also in 1/144) and I really like it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 AAAH! Thank you very much! Can I ask you where you got the second picture from? Don't remember, since i downloaded it 4 years ago. :) Probably somewhere from google pictures. I have built once the revell Su-47 in 1/144 (my second model ever) and i remembered i really enjoyed the build. 1/144 is relaxing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kfmut Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Well IIRC Su-47 was Sukhoi's own technology demonstrator and not a programme in itself like PAK-FA is... The idea was started back in the USSR days but the finalization was done by Sukhoi... OK, please tell me how would you name activity started in 1983 with S-22 project, continued in 1988 with S-32 project and resulted in S-37? S-32 were already intended for serial production, but funds cutting in early 90s buried this plans. As for now, Sukhoi has serious problems, for example, in near future all carrier-based Su-33 jets would be retired from service because Sukhoi already couldn't produce new airframes of that type. Maybe they would be replaced with MiG-29K, maybe not... Best regards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 OK, please tell me how would you name activity started in 1983 with S-22 project, continued in 1988 with S-32 project and resulted in S-37? S-32 were already intended for serial production, but funds cutting in early 90s buried this plans. Best regards I have my high doubts about that S-32 was ever intended to be in service. The explanation is simple: First off all russians did have some small knowledge of FSW (captured Ju-287 and german documents, and some small tests of FSW before WW2) , but not enough to actually make a plane that was intended, and been able to be in service. The other thing is that FSW are bloody hard to make. They need to be stronger than conventional wings, but at same time they have to be not too heavy. I imagine instantly it would be a nightmare having a FSW aircraft in service in 80's or early 90's, in terms of service of the aircraft. And that would be terrible ecpesialy in 80's, considering cold war was becoming warmer... I have heard rumors that there are problems with Su-47's wings, and they are made using tecnology that was simply to limited in 80's and 90's. Go figure. I don't know why/how S-32 transformed into S-37 that we know as Su-47 now, that is a question for designers. So, why did russians projected S-32 and S-37? Because of X-29. They understood that with X-29 americans could explore more of the FSW concept, and at same time test out carbon fiber materials at much more critical level than ever before. No, it is not copying, it is just matter of exploring limits. As for now, Sukhoi has serious problems, for example, in near future all carrier-based Su-33 jets would be retired from service because Sukhoi already couldn't produce new airframes of that type. Maybe they would be replaced with MiG-29K, maybe not...Best regards Not really. It is much bigger problem for russian Navy. The 30 or so Su-33's are a tiny fraction of Sukhoi's total aircrafts sold. I have however never heard of Su-33 being pulled out from service. Of course Sukhoi can produce Su-33 again....They were thinking of selling 12 (iirc) Su-33's to China, but decided to not sell. (because of the fear it will be copied) And those 12 Su-33's are surely not from russian service, but new built... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sebastijan Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 As I said the programme of a FSW fighter was started in the USSR days... but considering the fact that nothing but blue prints of probable designs and maybe some models for windtunnel testing at TsAGI has happened... Sukhoi ressurected the idea in the late '90s under own finances, but my guess is those projects from the early 80s and the final look of Su-47 are waaaay different considering the fact how technology advanced in all those years... That's why I hardly say that Su-47 was build out of that programme... more of a child of it... Regarding Sukhoi's problems - I'm not really sure that's true. With substantial export sales I doubt that rumour. The future of Su-33 might be unclear but with promises from Russian top brass of building 5 new carriers, I guess both Sukhoi and MiG will have benefits... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kfmut Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 >I have my high doubts about that S-32 was ever intended to be in service. The explanation is simple: First off all russians did have some small knowledge of FSW (captured Ju-287 and german documents, and some small tests of FSW before WW2) , but not enough to actually make a plane that was intended, and been able to be in service. Serial production of S-32 were planned on mid 90s, just little ahead of actual appear of S-37, so way not? >The other thing is that FSW are bloody hard to make. They need to be stronger than conventional wings, but at same time they have to be not too heavy. I imagine instantly it would be a nightmare having a FSW aircraft in service in 80's or early 90's, in terms of service of the aircraft. And that would be terrible ecpesialy in 80's, considering cold war was becoming warmer... Agree with you, repairing battle damage of such aircraft would be really coastly. >So, why did russians projected S-32 and S-37? Because of X-29. They understood that with X-29 americans could explore more of the FSW concept, and at same time test out carbon fiber materials at much more critical level than ever before. No, it is not copying, it is just matter of exploring limits. Not agree with you. X-29 tests ended in '92 much earlier than S-37 project appeared and US, as I read, were not very happy with results. So why somebody would start building real aircraft based on "failed" concept? Believe me, early 90s in Russia was not very good time for investing money in anything, so Sukhoi story about technology demonstrator...I'm just couldn't believe in this :-) >Not really. It is much bigger problem for russian Navy. The 30 or so Su-33's are a tiny fraction of Sukhoi's total aircrafts sold. Third serial built airframe of Su-34 was in production almost two years! And not because of finances shortness. They attention totally focussed on fulfilling foreign orders. Also they lacks qualified free hands. So than they would be ready, moment could be lost... >I have however never heard of Su-33 being pulled out from service. Watch for news >They were thinking of selling 12 (iirc) Su-33's to China, but decided to not sell. (because of the fear it will be copied) And those 12 Su-33's are surely not from russian service, but new built... Copied, huh, you seriously think that Su-33 far superior tham Su-30MK? If you speaking about fighter for they carrier programme, I suppose that Su-33 already too old for them. Best regards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 So why somebody would start building real aircraft based on "failed" concept?Best regards Because they thought they could do a better, and more effective plane. In a way, it seems like they managed that. Su-47 seems to be much closer to be battle capable plane than X-29. And that kinda gave the russians a clearer view of what is working, and not working with FSW aircrafts. Copied, huh, you seriously think that Su-33 far superior tham Su-30MK? If you speaking about fighter for they carrier programme, I suppose that Su-33 already too old for them. Yes, i was speaking about carrier program they have. They didn't intend to have Su-33 as land based aircraft. I don't think Su-33 is too old for them considering that they have older planes in service, and the fact they were genuinely interested in buying those 12 aircrafts. The deal stopped on the Sukhois end. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kfmut Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 (edited) >but my guess is those projects from the early 80s and the final look of Su-47 are waaaay different considering the fact how technology advanced in all those years... On that page http://paralay.com/s37.html you could find schemas of all projects, and they looks very similar to me ;-) but maybe they are not very accurate. >Regarding Sukhoi's problems - I'm not really sure that's true. With substantial export sales I doubt that rumour. Already answered. And also Sukhoi could lost they independece because our goverment wants to join most of aviation related companys in one corporation to withdraw world economic crisis >...promises from Russian top brass of building 5 new carriers... I could answer on those "promises" only by one of favorite russians saying: Dogs barks, wind blows this away Best regards P.S. Please excuse me for all those grammatic errors in my posts :-S Edited June 22, 2009 by kfmut Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sebastijan Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 hehe no prob, we are not native english speakers... I have doubts with all those claims and I rather get myself surprised rather to believe firmly to the first news I hear... Mabye since you live in Russia, have more firsthand experience and feel for things... At least I hope MAKS will be worth visiting Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mitch... Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Does anyone have some news about a 1/48 BERKUT, please ??? :blink: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Does anyone have some news about a 1/48 BERKUT, please ??? :blink: Z-z-z-z-z-ooooombie thread. Answer: No. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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