Help! Is Gunze Paint any good?

[Mike5401]

Hey Guy's,

I was thinking of building a model pretty soon after a long 8 year absence and was wanting to try a new paint brand rather than MM Enamels.

I've heard good things about Gunze Mr Color & Gunze Aqueous. Could someone tell me what the difference is between the 2 and what thinners work best for them? Also if you have thoughts good or bad about using either one please post!

Do they lay down smooth? Dry Time? Any issues when masking over them?

Last part is a bonus question, I was thinking of building NSAWC 13 F-14A Tan/Brown/Green aka "Iranian Scheme" but wanted to know if Gunze had these colors or similar or a good mix for them. Color call out is:

FS 30400 Tan, FS 30140 Brown, FS 34095 Green, FS 36495 Light Gray, FS 36375 Light Ghost Gray.

Any help would be much appreciated!

Thanks

Mike

[Emvar]

I loved Gunze Aqueous was so simple and didn't stink up the house can't get it around here now. Used the 90% Alcohol as a thinner. The other stuff use the Mr Color brand thinner still good but stinks.

HTH

[-Neu-]

Hey Guy's,

I was thinking of building a model pretty soon after a long 8 year absence and was wanting to try a new paint brand rather than MM Enamels.

I've heard good things about Gunze Mr Color & Gunze Aqueous. Could someone tell me what the difference is between the 2 and what thinners work best for them? Also if you have thoughts good or bad about using either one please post!

Do they lay down smooth? Dry Time? Any issues when masking over them?

About a year and a half ago I bought a few gunze paints because I was tired of making a mix of Tamiya for modern USAF F-16. I Found they go down extremely smooth, and are very durable. I decided to go almost completely over the Gunze with a few exceptions. I think they are the best paints you can get on the market (Save for some of the more speciality Japanese ones like Gaia.

One of the nicest parts about Gunze is their paint "system." What you get in their bottle of MR Color is slightly thicker and more concentrated than Tamiya. You'll need to thin it out even more. While that might seem like a money grab, it actually isn't: you get more use out a bottle with some of the thinner than an equivalently priced Tamiya bottle. Its cheaper overall.

Then there are a whole bunch of different products you can get to change the paint's qualities. There are paint drying retarders, metal or resin primer mixes, bases that change the tint... it allows you to do far more with the paint when you need to. The thinner also works with Mr Surfacer, which allows you to make it a fantastic primer coat (especially Mr Finishing Surfacer Black for NMF kits.)

Also note that both Mr Color and Mr Aqueous colour are both Acrylic pigments, just that their carrier is lacquer based for Mr Color and Alcohol for Aqueous. They both dry pretty quickly, although I know with Mr Color you really need to wait for 2~7 days before laying down a coat of Future over top, because it has a long final drying time and can crack the upper future surface if its not sufficiently cured underneath. Its a very rare problem, but it can ruin a model if it occurs.

Last part is a bonus question, I was thinking of building NSAWC 13 F-14A Tan/Brown/Green aka "Iranian Scheme" but wanted to know if Gunze had these colors or similar or a good mix for them. Color call out is:

FS 30400 Tan, FS 30140 Brown, FS 34095 Green, FS 36495 Light Gray, FS 36375 Light Ghost Gray.

Lets see... I can't find a NSAWC boxing for F-14s, but this Skyhawk one might be useful.

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10025073

And this two bobs sheet (fighting fulcrums)

http://www.twobobs.net/contents/en-us/d37.html#p7

Tan H027

Green H309

Brown H037

Light Gray - H338

Light Ghost Gray - H308

hope that helps

Richard

[Murph]

Gunze Sangyo Aqueous paints are, by far, the best model paints I've ever used. Unfortunately nobody in the U.S. imports them anymore due to issues with the distributors (according to a couple of conversations I've had with big on-line retailers). What you see in U.S. shops now are the Mr. Color paints, made by the same company, but which are lacquer based. Personally I would much rather deal with rubbing alcohol or distilled water as a thinner than lacquer.

Regards,

Murph

[dsahling]

IMO Mr. Color are some of the best paints out there, they come in a range of colors for most basic aircraft colors. More importantly, they are so easy to spray, they RARELY if ever clog the tip of the airbrush d/t the lacquer thinner. They are also incredibly durable and will almost never peel off with masking tape (some resins are the exception, but I've never had a problem Aires, Quickboost, or AMS. They are perfect for enamel washes which leave a realistic stain and filter effect after you wipe them with enamel thinner. The only downside are the fumes, GET A MASK and adequate ventilation for them though, the smell is incredibly strong, but its a small price to pay.

[-Neu-]

They are also incredibly durable and will almost never peel off with masking tape (some resins are the exception, but I've never had a problem Aires, Quickboost, or AMS.

They do sell a resin primer for just that task... which can also be thinned out by Mr Thinner and other products.

[Mike5401]

I loved Gunze Aqueous was so simple and didn't stink up the house can't get it around here now. Used the 90% Alcohol as a thinner. The other stuff use the Mr Color brand thinner still good but stinks.

HTH

Thank You for the info. and your thoughts, I really appreciate it!!

About a year and a half ago I bought a few gunze paints because I was tired of making a mix of Tamiya for modern USAF F-16. I Found they go down extremely smooth, and are very durable. I decided to go almost completely over the Gunze with a few exceptions. I think they are the best paints you can get on the market (Save for some of the more speciality Japanese ones like Gaia.

One of the nicest parts about Gunze is their paint "system." What you get in their bottle of MR Color is slightly thicker and more concentrated than Tamiya. You'll need to thin it out even more. While that might seem like a money grab, it actually isn't: you get more use out a bottle with some of the thinner than an equivalently priced Tamiya bottle. Its cheaper overall.

Then there are a whole bunch of different products you can get to change the paint's qualities. There are paint drying retarders, metal or resin primer mixes, bases that change the tint... it allows you to do far more with the paint when you need to. The thinner also works with Mr Surfacer, which allows you to make it a fantastic primer coat (especially Mr Finishing Surfacer Black for NMF kits.)

Also note that both Mr Color and Mr Aqueous colour are both Acrylic pigments, just that their carrier is lacquer based for Mr Color and Alcohol for Aqueous. They both dry pretty quickly, although I know with Mr Color you really need to wait for 2~7 days before laying down a coat of Future over top, because it has a long final drying time and can crack the upper future surface if its not sufficiently cured underneath. Its a very rare problem, but it can ruin a model if it occurs.

Lets see... I can't find a NSAWC boxing for F-14s, but this Skyhawk one might be useful.

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10025073

And this two bobs sheet (fighting fulcrums)

http://www.twobobs.net/contents/en-us/d37.html#p7

Tan H027

Green H309

Brown H037

Light Gray - H338

Light Ghost Gray - H308

hope that helps

Richard

Wow thanks for the info! Thank You for the help and finding these colors, was trying to do that myself but couldn't find anything that I thought would match. I think I'm really swayed to go with this brand, I really haven't found one bad response except the smell, but then again MM Enamels don't smell good either! I'd much rather have a nice looking paint job and deal with a little bit of strong odor!

Gunze Sangyo Aqueous paints are, by far, the best model paints I've ever used. Unfortunately nobody in the U.S. imports them anymore due to issues with the distributors (according to a couple of conversations I've had with big on-line retailers). What you see in U.S. shops now are the Mr. Color paints, made by the same company, but which are lacquer based. Personally I would much rather deal with rubbing alcohol or distilled water as a thinner than lacquer.

Regards,

Murph

Thanks Murph! I may have to look into trying to get a few Aqueous paints and try them out. I know my local hobby shop carries almost all of Mr Hobby's line, so I'll check and see if they carry only Mr Color or if they possibly have Aqueous. Thanks for your opinion!!

IMO Mr. Color are some of the best paints out there, they come in a range of colors for most basic aircraft colors. More importantly, they are so easy to spray, they RARELY if ever clog the tip of the airbrush d/t the lacquer thinner. They are also incredibly durable and will almost never peel off with masking tape (some resins are the exception, but I've never had a problem Aires, Quickboost, or AMS. They are perfect for enamel washes which leave a realistic stain and filter effect after you wipe them with enamel thinner. The only downside are the fumes, GET A MASK and adequate ventilation for them though, the smell is incredibly strong, but its a small price to pay.

Thank You as well for your thoughts, very much appreciated! Yeah I always try and wear a mask if possible, we only get one set of lungs, gotta protect them when we can.

Thank You all again, it's really made my decision to switch that much easier. :)

[Jennings]

I don't like Gunze aqueous (acrylic) because if you make a mistake, I've never been able to get it to sand out smoothly to a feathered edge. No matter how long it's dried, I always end up with a little hard edge that's visible under subsequent layers of paint.

I love Tamiya acrylics and Xtracrylics, and use them almost exclusively.

[Joel_W]

Thanks guys for all this excellent information. I've been strictly a Tamiya Acrylic guy for some time now, but it can get a little tedious constantly having to custom mix colors. So I ordered from Sprue Brothers a few bottles of Mr. Color paints. Of course they can only be shipped via land, which is the most expensive and slowest way (good thing the rest of my order isn't anything that I need for my current build), but so be it. I'm planning on thinning them 2:3 with Tamiya's Yellow cap Lacquer Thinner. I figure that's a pretty good starting point since I thin Tamiya Acrylics 1:1 most of the time.

Tamiya will still be my go to paints until I build up a decent paint supply of Mr. Color. Having to order a few bottles of paint here and there, and then pay $10 shipping isn't exactly cost effective, nor good planning. But both seem to happen to me quite often.

Joel

[Murph]

I don't like Gunze aqueous (acrylic) because if you make a mistake, I've never been able to get it to sand out smoothly to a feathered edge. No matter how long it's dried, I always end up with a little hard edge that's visible under subsequent layers of paint.

I've found the exact opposite to be true; I've had no problem sanding them to a feathered edge. What you described has been my experience with Model Master acrylics; if those were the only paints available, I would give up modeling. It goes on much too thick, and if you happen to walk by the model with a roll of tape in hand the paint will peel off in huge chunks.

I was considering switching to Xtracrlics, but the last model I did really turned me off on them. They were a pain to spray (they kept drying on the airbrush tip) and came off in big chunks after being masked over. I also wasn't very happy with the color itself (FS #36375); I thought it was much too dark.

Regards,

Murph

[Alleycat]

The following post is for airbrushing, I have not done brush painting in a long time. So here's my $0.02 worth:

I like the Gunze Aqueous. Good colors and safe to use. I think they look better with about 20% (depending on color) white added for the scale effect. Pay attention to what others have said here about thinning (isopropyl alcohol - 70% alcohol is good, 91% needs a drop of retarder but is what I use) drying time ( about 24 hours works for me). I have not tried the Mr. Color so can not comment.

The following may be more info than you are looking for but I wish someone had told me this before I first used Gunze Aqueous.

If you try it just remember the following points.

Always use a good quality lacquer based surface primer before any acrylic brand of paint if you want to have success. Acrylics will just adhere better and still lay down smooth. I realize it defeats the whole "safety and smell" thing. It also helps with enamels but is not quite as vital. My favorite is the Tamiya "Fine Surface Primer" Lacquer in the spray can. I just decant it into a jar through a short rubber hose. Add a small quantity of quality lacquer thinner, not much because it is already pretty thin, and you are all set. The Alclad primers also work very well as pre-acrylic primers. I have not tried spraying the Mr. Surfacer because I know someone who said it gummed up his airbrush, but others swear by it. Just make sure you thin it with the right stuff. Some people are also very happy with various shades of Krylon. I tried the black once and can't say I like it for modeling.

Never paint any acrylic on bare plastic unless you want a disaster. If you do then never use anything for masking stronger than post-it notes. If you do then you better expect some chips to come up with the tape.

If you do pull some paint chips up use 600 grit sandpaper dipped in water and "polish" the area in a circle using almost no force and soon you will have a nice smooth feathered transition from the plastic to the original paint. Then use a finer grit to polish out any scratches from the 600 grit. If you press too hard the acrylic paint may peal up like dried rubber cement off of a table top and you have to start all over again (ask me how I know). Next, prime and repaint the area.

Make sure to seal the Gunze (after it is good and dry - maybe 2 or 3 days) with a clear varnish as I do not know if decal softeners will harm it. I and many others use Future Floor Wax (Polish?) which is also acrylic based but works well with decal softening systems like Microsol/set. There are many other choices of varnish and no doubt you have one you like.

One other point that you probably know is that acrylic paint can go on top of acrylic, enamel and lacquer; enamel can go on enamel, lacquer and bare plastic; lacquer can go on lacquer and bare plastic only. Future can go over acrylic, enamel or lacquer.

Good luck on your Tomcat project.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Alleycat

[galileo1]

I would love to use Mr. Color paints but the fumes just turned me off completely. I use the Aqueous line for some specific colors (modern U.S. Navy and Air Force jets) and they are fantastic! All that being said, I've also used LifeColor paints and they are pretty good. LifeColor's range of colors is great!

I do still wish that Tamiya would expand on their range of paints and include FS colors. I've never found a better paint line than Tamiya paints. They're just so easy to use.

Rob

[Joel_W]

Alleycat,

Why do you go through the effort to decant the Tamiya surface primer, as it's available in a bottle?

I've air brushed enamels over Acrylics without any issues. What issues did you have to come to that conclusion?

Joel

[Joerg]

Quiet a funny thread here. Seems that people warn you not to do stuff that I regularly do and never had a problem with and then there are other things that I don´t do, because I had problems with it, that everybody else seems to have no problems with... :hmmm:/>

From my experience I had a problem the first time that I used Gunze acrylics. I used alcohol to thin them and they seemed to take forever to fully cure. The model was still sticky after a week or so. Since then I have one golden rule for any paint: I always use the thinner from the paint manufacturer. Since doing that I never had any problems anymore.

And I do a lot of stuff that you have been warned off:

• I hardly ever use any primer at all and paint any paint directly on the plastic. Just make sure you don´t soak the model and you can even do it with Alclad.
  
• I paint any paint on any other paint (acrylic or enamel). Most often I use an enamel semigloss coat as the final coat over acrylic paint jobs. Again, just use light coats and it should work fine. The only problem I ever had here was when I sprayed Aeromaster (Floquil) acrylics over a gloss Gunze coat. The Aeromaster paint didn´t have anything to hold on to and after drying it looked like elephant skin.
  
• I mask on acrylics with Tamiya tape - no issue at all.
  

As many others said Gunze acrylics are amongst the best paints out there. Go and give them a try.

Cheers,

Joerg

[RichardL]

Yep, Gunze acrylics are some of the best, if not the best. Here is my rack:

I get perfect results using Gunze aqueous thinner - perfect drying time and the paints don't clog the airbrush tip.

Tamiya comes a very close second for me:

[Joel_W]

Richard, you bought racks? Didn't know you could buy them.

Joel

[Mike5401]

The following post is for airbrushing, I have not done brush painting in a long time. So here's my $0.02 worth:

I like the Gunze Aqueous. Good colors and safe to use. I think they look better with about 20% (depending on color) white added for the scale effect. Pay attention to what others have said here about thinning (isopropyl alcohol - 70% alcohol is good, 91% needs a drop of retarder but is what I use) drying time ( about 24 hours works for me). I have not tried the Mr. Color so can not comment.

The following may be more info than you are looking for but I wish someone had told me this before I first used Gunze Aqueous.

If you try it just remember the following points.

Always use a good quality lacquer based surface primer before any acrylic brand of paint if you want to have success. Acrylics will just adhere better and still lay down smooth. I realize it defeats the whole "safety and smell" thing. It also helps with enamels but is not quite as vital. My favorite is the Tamiya "Fine Surface Primer" Lacquer in the spray can. I just decant it into a jar through a short rubber hose. Add a small quantity of quality lacquer thinner, not much because it is already pretty thin, and you are all set. The Alclad primers also work very well as pre-acrylic primers. I have not tried spraying the Mr. Surfacer because I know someone who said it gummed up his airbrush, but others swear by it. Just make sure you thin it with the right stuff. Some people are also very happy with various shades of Krylon. I tried the black once and can't say I like it for modeling.

Never paint any acrylic on bare plastic unless you want a disaster. If you do then never use anything for masking stronger than post-it notes. If you do then you better expect some chips to come up with the tape.

If you do pull some paint chips up use 600 grit sandpaper dipped in water and "polish" the area in a circle using almost no force and soon you will have a nice smooth feathered transition from the plastic to the original paint. Then use a finer grit to polish out any scratches from the 600 grit. If you press too hard the acrylic paint may peal up like dried rubber cement off of a table top and you have to start all over again (ask me how I know). Next, prime and repaint the area.

Make sure to seal the Gunze (after it is good and dry - maybe 2 or 3 days) with a clear varnish as I do not know if decal softeners will harm it. I and many others use Future Floor Wax (Polish?) which is also acrylic based but works well with decal softening systems like Microsol/set. There are many other choices of varnish and no doubt you have one you like.

One other point that you probably know is that acrylic paint can go on top of acrylic, enamel and lacquer; enamel can go on enamel, lacquer and bare plastic; lacquer can go on lacquer and bare plastic only. Future can go over acrylic, enamel or lacquer.

Good luck on your Tomcat project.

I would love to use Mr. Color paints but the fumes just turned me off completely. I use the Aqueous line for some specific colors (modern U.S. Navy and Air Force jets) and they are fantastic! All that being said, I've also used LifeColor paints and they are pretty good. LifeColor's range of colors is great!

I do still wish that Tamiya would expand on their range of paints and include FS colors. I've never found a better paint line than Tamiya paints. They're just so easy to use.

Rob

Alleycat,

Why do you go through the effort to decant the Tamiya surface primer, as it's available in a bottle?

I've air brushed enamels over Acrylics without any issues. What issues did you have to come to that conclusion?

Joel

Quiet a funny thread here. Seems that people warn you not to do stuff that I regularly do and never had a problem with and then there are other things that I don´t do, because I had problems with it, that everybody else seems to have no problems with... :hmmm:/>/>

From my experience I had a problem the first time that I used Gunze acrylics. I used alcohol to thin them and they seemed to take forever to fully cure. The model was still sticky after a week or so. Since then I have one golden rule for any paint: I always use the thinner from the paint manufacturer. Since doing that I never had any problems anymore.

And I do a lot of stuff that you have been warned off:

• I hardly ever use any primer at all and paint any paint directly on the plastic. Just make sure you don´t soak the model and you can even do it with Alclad.
  
• I paint any paint on any other paint (acrylic or enamel). Most often I use an enamel semigloss coat as the final coat over acrylic paint jobs. Again, just use light coats and it should work fine. The only problem I ever had here was when I sprayed Aeromaster (Floquil) acrylics over a gloss Gunze coat. The Aeromaster paint didn´t have anything to hold on to and after drying it looked like elephant skin.
  
• I mask on acrylics with Tamiya tape - no issue at all.
  

As many others said Gunze acrylics are amongst the best paints out there. Go and give them a try.

Cheers,

Joerg

Yep, Gunze acrylics are some of the best, if not the best. Here is my rack:

I get perfect results using Gunze aqueous thinner - perfect drying time and the paints don't clog the airbrush tip.

Tamiya comes a very close second for me:

Thanks all for the added info and tips! Excellent stuff here. Definitely some very useful stuff here. Looks like I'll have to mix a little here and there to match the colors I need.

Thanks

Mike

[RichardL]

Richard, you bought racks? Didn't know you could buy them.

Joel

Yeah, I bought racks to organize the paint bottles. You might be able to order the Tamiya paint rack through your local hobby shop. The Gunze rack is extremely difficult to find nowadays. I got it from a local hobby shop that went out of business more than a decade ago.

FYI, one online source that carries Gunze Aqueous in the United States is: 1001ModelKits

[Mike D]

For the love of whomever you hold holy, DO NOT gloss/flat coat with Testors rattlecan Dullcoat or Glosscoat!

For the sake of expediency, I sometimes give that final lightly misted flat coat with Dullcoat and I have wrecked more models than I ever thought possible, even old shelf queens I would have SWORN I did not paint with Gunze..

Light misted coats from a distance and the paint job is wrecked.

Any kit painted with Gunze these days gets a big card in the box "PAINTED W GUNZE, no DULLCOAT, Dummy"

I do not know what the issue is, I am no chemist, but the chemical compositions of these two products do not play well together.

Otherwise like other folks have said, love the paint and it is hard to find.

Mike

[Murph]

Quiet a funny thread here. Seems that people warn you not to do stuff that I regularly do and never had a problem with and then there are other things that I don´t do, because I had problems with it, that everybody else seems to have no problems with... :hmmm:/>/>

From my experience I had a problem the first time that I used Gunze acrylics. I used alcohol to thin them and they seemed to take forever to fully cure. The model was still sticky after a week or so. Since then I have one golden rule for any paint: I always use the thinner from the paint manufacturer. Since doing that I never had any problems anymore.

Same here. I use plain rubbing alcohol to thin Gunze paints and have never had any issue with them not drying. I do thin it less than most people (3 or 4 drops) and spray it at a higher pressure though (around 50 psi).

• I hardly ever use any primer at all and paint any paint directly on the plastic. Just make sure you don´t soak the model and you can even do it with Alclad.
  
• I paint any paint on any other paint (acrylic or enamel). Most often I use an enamel semigloss coat as the final coat over acrylic paint jobs. Again, just use light coats and it should work fine. The only problem I ever had here was when I sprayed Aeromaster (Floquil) acrylics over a gloss Gunze coat. The Aeromaster paint didn´t have anything to hold on to and after drying it looked like elephant skin.
  
• I mask on acrylics with Tamiya tape - no issue at all.
  

The only thing I prime are resin parts or etched metal, and I use Tamiya rattle can gray for that. For Alclad I'll put a base coat of Tamiya spray can silver on first (generally I'll decant it and spray it through the airbrush) and then spray the Alclad over that. I've never had an issue with Gunze on unprimed plastic peeling from masking tape, and that's using both Tamiya and regular scotch tape.

For the love of whomever you hold holy, DO NOT gloss/flat coat with Testors rattlecan Dullcoat or Glosscoat!

For the sake of expediency, I sometimes give that final lightly misted flat coat with Dullcoat and I have wrecked more models than I ever thought possible, even old shelf queens I would have SWORN I did not paint with Gunze..

Light misted coats from a distance and the paint job is wrecked.

Any kit painted with Gunze these days gets a big card in the box "PAINTED W GUNZE, no DULLCOAT, Dummy"

I do not know what the issue is, I am no chemist, but the chemical compositions of these two products do not play well together.

Otherwise like other folks have said, love the paint and it is hard to find.

Mike

There used to be a thread here years ago (it might have even been pinned at one point) about spraying different types of paint over another, particularly acrylics. Personally I don't use Dullcoat anymore, because it starts out already "yellowed" in the can or bottle, and will only look worse with age, particularly over white paint. When I did use it, I always applied a coat of Future to seal the decals and paint and even out their finish before applying the Dullcoat.

Regards,

Murph

[Alleycat]

Why do you go through the effort to decant the Tamiya surface primer, as it's available in a bottle?

When I bough my supply of Tamiya primer (Lacquer) it was not available from my LHS in bottles and I have never looked for them. This is a pleasant surprise to me so thanks for the info. If the bottled product is the exact same mixture and consistency I would probably go with that next time. The large spray cans are around $12 US and last a LONG time. I do not know the cost of the bottles but they may be more economical. Decanting the primer from a spray can is really no more difficult than preparing the actual paint. Like I said it is already the correct consistency for spraying. I thin it a little just from habit.

I've air brushed enamels over Acrylics without any issues. What issues did you have to come to that conclusion?

I have seen these guidelines in many places, and experienced issues myself when not following them, but only rarely as now I avoid it when possible. It is possible for the carrier in enamel paints to dissolve or damage underlying acrylics. Also, I have even seen Lacquer refuse to bond to acrylic. I read a recommendation once about using Tamiya gloss black acrylic as a base for Alclad metal paints (lacquer). Even after 7 days cure time the Alclad came right off of the Tamiya black on my Tamiya 1/48 P-51D when handled. I ended up stipping the entire model and using Alclad gray primer which worked perfectly. It was so easy that I have never since feared natural metal finishes by the way. I believe the guidelines I mentioned were originated by, or at least supported by the paint manufacturers themselves. Sometimes for convenience you can't avoid it and can usually get away with it if the acrylics are completely cured and you use reasonably light coats of enamel or lacquer. But eventually it may bite you and it only takes one bad experience to get your attention. Keep in mind that the OP has not modeled in 8 years and has never used the Gunze acrylics. I was just trying to help him avoid any disasters. Like I said, I wish someone had told me these things before I had my problems.

I know there are as many ways to do things as there are modelers, and most of them are not "right" or "wrong", but this is what usually works for me. However there are never any guarantees.

[Joel_W]

Murph,

I've been using Dullcoat and Glosscoat from the bottle since the 70's without any issues. Dullcoat is certainly "yellow" in the bottle, but once thinned with Lacquer Thinner, goes on clear, and I've never experienced any yellowing over time. These days I prefer Future/Pledge rather then Glosscoat like so many others. I've never used either Gloss/Dullcoat from rattle cans, But I can imagine issues stemming from the high pressure they're shot out of the can with.

Joel

[Alleycat]

Regarding priming before using acrylic:

I once painted a 1/72 Hasegawa Hornet using Gunze Acq. Acrylic and a large chip came off the right side of the fuselage just below the cockpit with some low tack masking tape. That was around 1990 and I suppose the formula might have changed since then, and yes, I thoroughly cleaned the plastic prior to application. At that time I researched it and the "experts" seemed to agree that priming was usually the safe play. I also became cautious about the way I remove any masking material, always pulling it back over itself very tightly. Never lift it straight up from the plastic. Failure to do this may have caused my problem but I really did not like a chip nearly the size of an AA battery in diameter coming up off of the plastic. I have been priming ever since and am now a firm believer in it, especially for acrylics. I did a number of models with Gunze Acq. before that with no priming and no trouble, but there was not much masking involved. I have done some since then using priming and the finish of the later ones just looks smother and "better" to me. That could just be my bias from knowing there is a nice tough, resilient lacquer layer underneath. It also might just be due to greater experience. I even did some testing trying to lift the acrylic off of the primer and it simply would not. I see a number of posts taking exception to this, but I have talked to a number of other people who have had a similar problem. Sometimes I am tempted to skip priming as it does take extra time and investment, and it is not THAT hard to recover from an issue, but I figure after spending a month or two on a building project why take the risk? I don't know, maybe I'm just being paranoid.

Question – Has anyone ever done an adhesion test using Gunze acrylics on bare plastic by putting on masking tape and trying to lift the paint off? I would be curious to know.

I do not mean to take over this thread, but I would be interested to hear other peoples experiences regarding this issue.

[Brian 1]

Regarding priming before using acrylic:

I once painted a 1/72 Hasegawa Hornet using Gunze Acq. Acrylic and a large chip came off the right side of the fuselage just below the cockpit with some low tack masking tape.

Question – Has anyone ever done an adhesion test using Gunze acrylics on bare plastic by putting on masking tape and trying to lift the paint off? I would be curious to know.

I do not mean to take over this thread, but I would be interested to hear other peoples experiences regarding this issue.

I use Aqueous color exclusively and have never had that happen, and I never prime. What I do is wet sand the entire model with 1200 grit and dish soap, this gives a nice finish for the pint to adhere to, plus you'd be surprised how much better your models will look because it eliminates the very minute tooling/scrape marks from where the molds were made. This gives the paint something to bite while not damaging the plastic or detail at all. You can even do it on raised panel kits without loosing the panel lines. After that I let it air dry then apply the paint thinned heavily with 90% isopropyl. I then wait 24 hours before masking gloss colors and maybe one hour after flats, same goes for applying future as well. i'm of the mindset that Aqueous colors are the best paints made in regards to pigment grainulation (tamiya is grainy) as well as color match. Anyone that has problems with them is usually the problem in my experience (not meant to sound smart), also I believe priming is a complete waste of time and can complicate things. I even got lucky at the Nats this year too and scored about 60 bottles of Aqueous color for about 50 cent a bottle! I cant get enough of this stuff!!

[Alleycat]

This gives the paint something to bite while not damaging the plastic or detail at all.

Actually the enamel and lacquer paints have carriers that "bite" the plastic and hold. The acrylics have carriers that do not bite the plastic, they just have a better chance of not pulling away from the rough surface. But you could very well model for your entire life and never have a problem with not priming. It only takes once to make you a believer though.

Anyone that has problems with them is usually the problem

I find that is true for lots of things in life :russian-roulette-smiley: (sorry, I love this little emoticon, it made me laugh)

I believe priming is a complete waste of time and can complicate things.

Any time you add another process it can complicate things. That may be why some modelers do not use any weathering techniques at all, one mistake can screw up a good model. As to a waste of time, priming can't take much more time than sanding the entire model with dish soap. Having said that, I usually wet sand the entire model with 1200 grit also. And for me I feel that priming actually saves me time in getting a good final coat. There is always something to work on while the primer is drying, and lacquers seem to dry fast. Virtually every expert modeler I have known and every book on modeling/air brushing I have ever read recommend priming no matter what paint you use. Do you have to? Obviously not. There are definitely advantages and disadvantages to priming.

To the OP - you pays your money and you takes your chances.