Petarvu Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) I really like heavy white stenciling on SEA camouflaged Phantoms.Only photos are so rare. I know for PACAF 3TFW F-4E from Clark AFB on Afterburner decal sheet (and I saw photo of it where someone wrote that it has whole maintenance manual written on it), and famous F-4G with numerous white stencils in Hasegawa box.Other than that-nothing. My Q is did any F-4E early had this kind of stenciling in Vietnam tour of duty? What about the C/D in Vietnam. And does someone have some photos to share, both E and C/D? To me,SEA camo C/D phantoms looks even better with heavy white stenciling than E, almost steam punk :-) TIA P Edited October 27, 2014 by Petarvu Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 In general (note, I said *IN GENERAL* not *always*), the more heavily stenciled airplanes were still wearing their factory applied finish. Once they cycled through a depot for major maintenance, they were stripped and repainted, usually (in almost every case) with far fewer stencils than they had from the factory. AFAIK, all F-4Cs left the factory in the light grey over white scheme, so any camo was by definition field or depot applied (so far fewer stencils). I think most D's left the factory in camo, but early D/E factory schemes didn't appear to have as many stencils as later ones did. I had photos of an FY73 F-4E (very late USAF production) that was literally *covered* with them. The giveaway is usually the typeface used - McDD used Futura Bold for most markings, and the depots didn't (in general). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThePhantomTwo Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) The only heavily stenciled F-4's I seen were two we received from Kadena in mid-1979 as maintenance trainers when we converted from F-100's to F-4C's,those stayed that way for as year or so.We had others with more than usual stencils but far less than the first two we received.The transits we had roll thru in the '70's (Langley,McDill,George AFB units mainly)had what Jennings described,just the minimal stenciling needed for servicing and egress. Edited October 27, 2014 by ThePhantomTwo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott R Wilson Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) Based on photos I've seen and taken myself and my experience working on USAF F-4s (Cs and Es): when F-4Cs and RF-4Cs were first in production they had the Navy gull gray/white paint with a full set of maintenance stencils in black, yellow or red on top and dark gray in place of black on the bottom. When they were repainted in camouflage they kept the bare minimum of stencils. Different commanders each have their own preferences and what they want becomes law in the military. Somewhere around the mid 70s whoever was in charge evidently decided maintenance people weren't smart enough to read the tech manuals and so decreed stencils would be brought back. Jets factory fresh or repainted during the few years this man was in power received white stencils over the greens, black over tan and dark gray on the white (36622 light gray) bellies. Not long after that started it changed, all stencils were black on top with dark gray on white bellies and black on wraparound. Very shortly afterwards a saner (imho) individual took command and they went back to basic warnings and egress stencils with just panel numbers in black/ dark gray The thing you have to keep in mind is the jet kept whatever stencils were applied when it was repainted until the next repaint. If the jet already had fresh paint when the stencil craze started, it never received all those ridiculous stencils. Not that many jets ever received the "snowflake treatment" (my term I just made up). And if it had been repainted during the craze it kept those snowflake stencils even after the craze ended, until its next repaint. The only way to be accurate is find a photo of the jet you are modeling and do it the way the photo shows. Edited October 27, 2014 by Scott R Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joerg Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Hi, check out this site: http://www.sharpshooter-maj.com/html/coronet.htm Flick through the years and you´ll find lots of pics of F-4D/E and RF-4Cs with the white stencils. Also regarding if this was still the factory scheme: Would a 66-model F-4D be still in the factory scheme 1976? I don´t know. Also the Luke AFB F-4Cs with the ACM stripes had quite interesting stencils: White on the green parts and black on the tan (and some green parts too). Check this out: http://www.airfighters.com/photo/143820/M/USA-Air-Force/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4C-Phantom-II/63-7426/ Definitely no factory finish! Check the usual sites like Airliners and Airfighters and you should find plenty pics! Cheers, Joerg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I can't speak for all squadrons, but in researching 4th TFW F-4s, I can say they were not covered in white stencils while deployed to Vietnam. They had factory SEA camouflage, fewer stencils than you see on depot-painted jets. I found several photos taken at Seymour Johnson AFB during the early- to mid-70s that show the white stencils, so they must have been applied at depot after returning from SEA. The 4th's F-4Ds had factory SEA camouflage and did not have the white stencils. I don't think they ever did. I can't recall seeing any photos of SEA-based F-4s covered in white stencils. That's not to say there weren't any, but I would think high-vis stuff like that would be frowned upon. HTH. Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ikar Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 When we were getting our first F-15 in the 5th F.I.S. and dropping the 106, I was talking to a crew chief at the acceptance ceremony and he said that most of the stencils were left off the eagles because they were not needed and just too time consuming to put back on for minor panels. They only needed them on the most important and most used panels. If they did it for the F-15, why not for other aircraft? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott R Wilson Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 When we were getting our first F-15 in the 5th F.I.S. and dropping the 106, I was talking to a crew chief at the acceptance ceremony and he said that most of the stencils were left off the eagles because they were not needed and just too time consuming to put back on for minor panels. They only needed them on the most important and most used panels. If they did it for the F-15, why not for other aircraft? In my experience we didn't need them at all; if you didn't already know the info the stenciled info said, you had no business working on the airplane. All the info was in the tech orders we had to have with us when we worked on the jets. That goes for panel numbers as well; the only time I ever found them useful in five years of working on Phantoms is when we took a bunch of panels off a jet while tracing a bad coax cable. Having the numbers stenciled on the panels made it easier to write up which panels we had removed in the aircraft's 781A forms. Of course we could have just opened up the T.O. 1F-4E-2-36CL-1 (or was it the T.O. 1F-4E-6? Too many years ago...) and found the drawing that showed all the panel numbers and got them that way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott R Wilson Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) double post Edited October 28, 2014 by Scott R Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) SEA camo F-4C from the 58th TFTW where having the very extensive "hi-viz" stencils applied to them. speak with some modeling experience since i build 5 of them! Edited October 28, 2014 by mingwin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
soulfreak Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) Here is what i found on a quick search: http://www.airfighters.com/photo/139385/L/USA-Air-Force/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4E-Phantom-II/69-7572/ http://www.airfighters.com/photo/120001/L/USA-Air-Force/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4E-Phantom-II/66-0328/ http://www.airfighters.com/photo/99666/L/USA-Air-Force/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4E-Phantom-II/72-0124/ http://www.airfighters.com/photo/80315/L/USA-Air-Force/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4E-Phantom-II/71-1392/ http://www.airfighters.com/photo/65831/L/USA-Air-Force/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4E-Phantom-II/71-1079/ http://www.airfighters.com/photo/27432/L/USA-Air-Force/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4E-Phantom-II/72-0139/ http://www.airfighters.com/photo/119037/M/USA-Air-Force/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4C-Phantom-II/63-7436/ http://www.airfighters.com/photo/119036/L/USA-Air-Force/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4C-Phantom-II/63-7436/ http://www.airfighters.com/photo/143820/L/USA-Air-Force/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4C-Phantom-II/63-7426/ http://www.airfighters.com/photo/124435/L/USA-Air-Force/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4C-Phantom-II/63-7412/ Edited October 28, 2014 by soulfreak Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Petarvu Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Thanks for the detailed info guys! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BillS Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 During the 1970s, many F-4s had full stenciling after repaints. Look at pics of 58th TTW Cs at Luke and 388th Ds at Hill to name two organizations sporting stenciling. There are plenty of images of these on the net. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott R Wilson Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 During the 1970s, many F-4s had full stenciling after repaints. Look at pics of 58th TTW Cs at Luke and 388th Ds at Hill to name two organizations sporting stenciling. There are plenty of images of these on the net. Exactly what I was saying, the F-4s that went through repaint during the fairly brief interval in the early to mid 70s received the stencils. Based on photos from that time that I've seen, the majority of USAF machines never received the white stencils, but there were still a lot that did. They didn't last long either. I joined the Texas ANG in April 1980 and our squadron of F-4Cs had exactly ONE jet with those stencils. By the time I got to George AFB in February 1982 there wasn't a single F-4E or G in the six squadrons assigned to the 35 and 37 TFWs that still had them. If you want to use white stencils and be accurate you need to find a photo of a particular Phantom with them and model that tail number. Or take artistic license and put the stencils on any ol' tail number. Your choice as always, Scott W. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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