Aftermarket stuff - as frustrating as it is good

[lesthegringo]

Disclaimer!! I will say up front that this is what I find, and that it is clear looking at other people's work that there are guys who can work miracles with PE and resin. I would never deny them the chance to have this media, and I am very aware of how lucky we are to have the choices we have in modern modelling.

For a while now I have been having a rather ambivalent relationship with aftermarket parts, particularly photo etched. Eduard's pre-coloured and sometimes self adhesive products can be a great addition to a model, creating a great looking cockpit, especially the instrument panel area; I don't kid myself that my modelling skills are such that I could produce such fine detail with that definition.

However, beyond these very obvious and very specific parts, for me it all goes sour. Some of my comments below are copied from a mini review I posted on another site, and following this I have become increasingly sceptical of the merit of PE.

The set I recently used was for the 1/48 MiG-23 from Trumpeter. Eduard provide you with two replacement intake ramps, which have nicely portrayed holes and details. When you fold up the parts, they look pretty good, except that the edges give them away as being pieces of folded sheet. My attempts to fill the corners with cyano were not good. Also, the very vague instructions as to how they fit onto the kit part, and where to cut don't help at all. I worked it out, including managing to work out which way up they go, but for me this is definitely a part where resin with photo etched inlays would be far better.

There are a multitude of grills, panels, panel surrounds and little sticky out bits (technical description there!) provided. Of them, the ones in the wheel bays look good, and are relatively easy to attach. The grills on the intakes are also 'easy' to attach, I chose to use Gunze Gloss Acrylic clear to stick them on as this a) works pretty well for medium sized parts and b ) some ammonia based window cleaner gets rid of the excess once it has dried on. However, the parts sit on the outside of the surface, and don't really look to scale; you would never see a 10-15mm step on the surface of a real plane. It's a tough one, you can't blame Eduard as they can't realistically make the parts any thinner, and you can't blame Trumpeter for not moulding in recesses for an aftermarket company! That leaves the option of making the recesses yourself, and while I know that there are some fantastic modellers out there who do exactly that, it is a step too far for me.

The Eduard set includes replacement intake auxiliary doors, but the instructions on how they should fit are poor. After finally locating a photo showing the inside of the intake, I worked out how they went, but after putting them in I am not happy with the result. I could have made a more accurate job just sticking some thin styrene strips to the kit part, and saved myself a whole lot of trouble. Next time I won't bother with the Eduard parts for this.

The cockpit colour etch is great, although due to the complicated sidewall console shape is a multi microscopic part fest. Again, Gunze clear was used to attach the non self adhesive bits. Some of the more tiny parts are left off, when I went to the trouble of putting one of them on, afterwards I couldn't even see it was there until I used a magnifying glass.

The remainder of the etched parts were for the undercarriage, and frankly were so much of a pain to try and attach that I gave up on most of it. Some of the bits would be better represented by bits of styrene, and others were those little ones that when trying to use cyano to attach, will attach themselves to absolutely everything except what you are trying to put it on.

So to sum up my ramblings on this photo etch set, while for stuff like the cockpit and wheel / avionics bays, or where there are grills to be represented they clearly can make a difference, for me their use on the rest is at best a compromised solution, and at worst a lot of trouble for very little benefit. With hindsight, I think that some of the parts could have been used to make templates for some scratched styrene pieces, or maybe used in conjunction with styrene sheet to make a better composite part (intake ramps come to mind). However, the biggest downside for me is having to use cyano which is as unforgiving as it is difficult to use. Until a proper alternative comes along, for photo etch I will stick to using the self adhesive cockpit sets along with some limited interior bits. PE unfortunately many times looks like what it is - a bit of thin sheet with some detail on one face tacked onto another part.

Resin sets are arguably as much, if not more trouble than photo etch; you only need to see the myriad of WIP builds on the various forums to see where ill fitting resin sets have given their builders huge headaches, even when supposedly the parts were made for the very kit they were fitting it to. However, the difference is that when well executed resin is an excellent medium. For the very same MiG-23, the Eduard and Aires resin parts were superb. The level of detail far surpasses what can be produced with styrene, in that it can have re-entrant features, plus surface detail and shape can be more accurately rendered due to the moulding process. The downsides are of course the requirement to saw off casting blocks, the need to paint what is a quite spectacularly complicated part, and depending on whose rendition of resin it is, slow death by grinding and dry fit.

So where am I going with all this rambling? Well, I suppose what I'm trying to say is that while there are tons of aftermarket goodies out there, some of it is obviously out there to feed off modellers with AMS rather than because it actually adds to the model. Mostly I think this applies to photo etch, where my thought at seeing certain parts is 'why?'. The answer of course is to make a PE fret look value for money, but the reality is that styrene, resin or even scratch built parts would be a more effective solution. I bought Eduard's own MiG-21, the weekend edition without any etch, or resin..... and apart from the passing thought that the PE cockpit instrument panels would be nice as Eduard have clearly designed it with that in mind (you have to scratch your own styrene ones for decals) I felt zero need for the aftermarket goodies.

I'm all for resin and photo etch, where they add to a model - a conversion to a different version, fixing an issue caused by 2D moulding techniques, rendering detail unobtainable by other methods. From now on, I'm only going to battle with this stuff when necessary, I'm going to enjoy my modelling!

Les

[loftycomfort]

I'm a bit on the opposite end of the spectrum - I actually enjoy fitting resin aftermarket sets into plastic kits. I enjoy the improved level of details, and I view any fitting problems as challenges that are fun to solve. I can't say the same for PE sets, though. I don't like their flattened look therefore I find them to be a less effective media for cockpits. Therefore whenever possible, I avoid using them and look for resin alternatives when it comes to improving details.

Then there are full resin kits. While successfully installing a beautifully detailed resin cockpit set gives you immense satisfaction, that level of high is exponentially greater when completing an ultra rare (and/or ultra challenging) resin or short run kit. While you admire your handy work, you also revel in the fact that it is likely only one of dozens (or less) of the kit that's EVER built.

What I hate about modeling is researching the subjects that I build. While I am nowhere near being a rivet counter, I do want my models to be mostly accurate. I just don't like to spend the effort to research them, preferring (or hoping) to leave that chore to the kit/decal/resin manufacturers.

Terry

[chuck540z3]

Interesting, and I kind of know what you're trying to say, but I offer the following from somebody who uses TONS of aftermarket stuff in all my models.

1) There is a learning curve when using brass PE and CA glue effectively and cleanly. Once you acquire a few tricks, using PE is very easy and is often much better than what the kit provides for detail. Same goes for resin aftermarket kits.

2) I rarely use every part of an Eduard PE set. As you mention, sometimes the kit plastic parts are just as good and there's no use in replacing them. My guess is that I only use about 2/3's of the brass provided in each set. An added bonus is that I often use leftover parts from some builds on other builds where they can still be used effectively.

3) Do you really want to build a model that looks identical to everybody else? That's one of the main reasons for using aftermarket parts. They make your model unique, or at least more interesting to look at.

4) Having said all that, I don't like the colored/painted Eduard PE brass at all and I almost never use it. To me it looks out of scale, thick and phoney. A thin brass part with paint or sometimes a decal usually looks much better.

Chuck

[Crazy Snap Captain]

I hear you Les. Some of my more recent Eduard adventures have bordered on hilarious, however, much like Chuck I do find "most" of it useful. As for resin, I think it's worth the time and effort to fit it as the results are so much better. Having said that. I do feel like sacrificially burning resin sometimes, especially when it shrinks (exhaust cans are the worst).

I never buy AM wheel bays as they are hardly seen. Resin wheels are overkill in my opinion as most modern kits do a good enough job on them these days <<insert cynical example here>>. For me it's cockpit, ejector seat, and exhaust cans 90% of the time. If I do a 1/32 I'll also splash out on AM weapons and pylons. Never used AM control surfaces. Correction sets are a must for some kits though (nose cones etc).

So if I had to make a call, yeah, I'd say I would be an AM man. Every now and then I do an OOB job just to get the satisfaction levels up.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Crazy Snap Captain

[Bob Beary]

Interesting, and I kind of know what you're trying to say, but I offer the following from somebody who uses TONS of aftermarket stuff in all my models.

1) There is a learning curve when using brass PE and CA glue effectively and cleanly. Once you acquire a few tricks, using PE is very easy and is often much better than what the kit provides for detail. Same goes for resin aftermarket kits.

Chuck, since I'm about to get into some resin, PE and CA could you share a few of your tips and tricks for doing it cleanly and neatly.

Thanks,

Bob

[AVGBob]

I agree with Les to a point. Example: Built a 1/72 Trumpeter F-100D with every aftermarket part I could throw at it. Did it look awesome? Yes. Did I haven fun with the build? Definitely.Was the final product worth the gobs of money I spent on it? Not sure.... I think scale matters. If you need to look at you models with a jewellers loupe to see the extra details, I'm not sure it is really worth it. The F-100D in the display case doesn't look too much different than the oob builds of Trumpeter's other variants of the 1/72 Hun sitting next to it. I have now moved to 1/32 exclusively and I find that the exta effort and expense of am parts are definitely worth it in a larger scale. I can certainly tell the difference between my 1/32 super detailed and oob builds in the dispay.

[chuck540z3]

Chuck, since I'm about to get into some resin, PE and CA could you share a few of your tips and tricks for doing it cleanly and neatly.

Thanks,

Bob

Well, since it might help you and others, here's a CA glue tutorial I recently wrote in my P-38 build thread. It's not specific to Photo-Etch, but most of the trouble with PE is gluing it cleanly.

CA Gluing Made Easy

When I first used CA glue (Cyanoacrylate) for the first time on Eduard photo-etch, it was a very frustrating experience. I got my fingers stuck together, the brass parts were covered in glue and the parts were crooked on the plastic. I dreaded using photo-etch parts for this reason, but over time, I figured out how to do it cleanly and quickly. I now love photo-etch parts and you’ll always find a lot of them in my builds. Eduard photo-etch brass really “kicks up your model a notch” with super fine detail you can’t mold with just plastic and resin alone.

First some basics. Generally speaking, CA glue comes in three viscosities of thin, medium and thick and each viscosity has its own uses and drying times. The thin glue usually dries very fast while the thicker the glue, the slower the drying time due to less surface area of the glue being exposed to air. I never buy medium or thick glue, because over time, thin CA glue will be of medium viscosity in about a year and almost too thick for anything after a year and half. I buy thin glue only and rotate the bottles according to age, so I always have all three viscosities on hand. I’ve read that keeping CA glue in the refrigerator will increase its shelf life, but I go through it so much that it doesn’t matter.

Besides the glue itself, you will need CA glue “Accelerator” and a “Debonder” to “dry” the glue immediately or remove the glue from places you don’t want it. The accelerators all work about the same. After you glue the parts, apply a bit of accelerator to the glued area with a microbrush and the glue will cure instantly. From what I’ve read, CA glue dries or “polymerizes” due to the attraction of water molecules in the air, which is totally the opposite of other glues where solvents within the glue evaporate. Since thinners or solvents aren’t leaving the glue, it doesn’t shrink, which makes it perfect for using as a filler. More on that later.

The biggest discovery I have made about CA glue is that not all debonders work the same. With many debonders, the application of the solvent will make a gooey mess and doesn’t quite remove all of the glue. “Great Planes Pro CA Debonder” is super strong and really dissolves the CA glue completely, but only where it is applied. Once I found this debonder, almost all of my CA gluing problems went away. It’s that much better than the other debonders, including the ones made specifically for certain brands of CA glue.

Before I get into gluing PE brass, you really should have two other tools to help you cut and bend the parts. The “Hold And Fold” is a great little tool to hold and bend the brass parts and the Xuron cutters are super accurate and do a much better job of cutting brass than any other tool, including scissors.

Now to gluing. Depending on the application, I will use thin glue on tiny parts and thicker glues on larger parts that I might need to move around and therefore need a few more seconds to do so. The best way of applying the glue is to use a toothpick or the end of a microbrush with the brush pulled off. These brushes have a second life when the brush head is contaminated or dried with glue, they become CA glue applicators. By pulling the brush head off in an outward direction, the plastic stretches, creating a nice fine plastic tip for gluing. They are very cheap when you buy them in bulk, so you can throw them away after they are no longer usable.

I also like to put a few drops of the glue into a shallow plastic cup, like the one below. While not air tight, the rim of the cup restricts the air circulation over the glue and I can sometimes keep the glue from drying for 24 hours this way, even uncovered. When I’m not gluing, I cover the cup to keep the glue thin for even longer.

I like to apply the glue to area where the part is to be placed and not the part itself. That way you can control where the glue stays and place the part with tweezers without fear of the part sticking to the tweezers. Once the part is placed, give it a gentle push to distribute the glue under the part and decrease the drying time. If some glue oozes out, no worries, assuming you’re dealing with just plastic and brass and not any paint. Apply some of the Great Planes debonder to a fresh microbrush and apply it to the area you want the glue removed. Wipe the area, then wipe the brush on a cloth to remove the glue from the brush, then reapply debonder and repeat until the area is glue free. If debonder gets under the part and is in contact with the glue you want to stay there, again no worries. Just let the debonder evaporate and give the glue more time to dry. The glue bond will not be compromised

Depending on the application, you may need to use an accelerator to set the glue quicker than ordinary drying times. To do this, I just load another microbrush with accelerator and let the solution touch the glue by capillary action underneath the brass part. For some very small parts, I might hold the part in place without any glue, then apply super thin CA glue to a microbrush and let it wick underneath the part from the sides. Cleanup is the same as above, using debonder.

Another tip. If you’re moving a part around with glue on it and it suddenly gets stuck before you’re ready, you need to pull the part off and try again. The bond will never be strong, even though the glue might not be totally dry. Carefully scrape off the glue on the plastic and the brass with a #11 knife and glue it all over again.

While accelerator is a great aid when using CA glue, it can also cause the glue to cure too quickly and unevenly, which creates a rough surface and air bubbles. For most applications this is not a problem and is only cosmetic, but sometimes you want the glue to stay as smooth and clear as possible, especially if it’s visible. For these situations I recommend no accelerator or, at the very least, the application of accelerator nearby the glue and not directly in contact with it.

You can also use CA glue to makes parts! When I was building my P-51D Mustang, I broke off the wing tip next to the aileron (almost impossible not to do at least once because it catches on everything!) as shown below:

To fix it, I cut the thin part back to provide a stronger base and inserted a pin, which in this case was a strong drill bit base.

I then applied a bit of CA glue to the base of the pin and let it dry with a small amount of accelerator placed on the pin.

Building up the part, I applied more CA glue to the tip of the pin which dried fairly quickly with the remnants of the accelerator, then sanded the new tip to shape and added the missing rivet detail while the CA glue remained relatively soft.

After re-painting, voila, the wing is as good as new! Ignore that outer panel line, which I re-scribed later.

I also use CA glue a LOT to fill seams, panel lines and as a general filler instead of putty. Putty has its uses, but if want to fill something quickly, without shrinkage and you want to re-scribe panel lines or reapply rivet detail, you can’t beat it. Putty shrinks, takes quite a while to dry and re-scribed lines across its surface are often ragged and torn looking. The key to using CA glue as a filler, is to sand it within one hour of application while it remains relatively soft and easy to deal with. After it dries for a day or so it becomes very hard and is difficult to sand.

Cheers,

Chuck

[Joel_W]

Les,

Interesting comments to say the least.

Most of us have or had a love/hate relationship with PE and resin AM parts, as it's part of the learning curve. I tend towards enhanced out of the box builds, just adding details as I deem necessary. The larger the scale, the more details are usually needed. I build exclusively in 1/48 scale, and with failing eyesight, I limit myself to what's necessary and what isn't. For me it's the overall finish that's most important as it's view from a few feet away. Painting, decaling, and weathering therefore become the elements that ultimately define the quality of my build. If the model doesn't come with Cartograf decals, or even if it does but not the markings I want, then I purchase the proper decal sheet or sheets

When I do work with PE, I found that extra thin CA like Zap-A-Gap applied with a toothpick works better then with a needle. Less is better in this case.The use of an accelerator that I apply almost on but not quite touching the surface using a micro brush, works to set the PE part in place. You'll also find that Extra Thin CA lets the part settle down much closer to the surface then either Pledge or a clear varnish.

When I do have to cut Resin, I do it in the garage or outside if possible, and I still wear a respirator. You can get fairly cheap ones at Home Depot or Lowes.

The whole point of model building as a hobby is to enjoy what you're creating. Every model is unique to the builder. Learning new skills, and adding AM parts to some degree helps to create the build you want.

Joel

Edited April 1, 2015 by Joel_W

[lesthegringo]

Nice replies, guys, and thanks to Chuck for the great tutorial - maybe a sticky is called for?

Clearly scale does come into this equation, I deal with 1/48 almost exclusively and so the scale thickness of PE is more of an issue. 1/32 stuff I think gives you more license, with the obvious downside of requiring more detail to look right, the way I see it is that by going up a scale, you have to add exponentially more to compensate. That of course opens the door to the aftermarket stuff, and means that to ensure you don't end up with a toy like model that extra yard is required. However a good paint job and weathering technique is at least as important, and I agree with Joel that the overall impression of the model is the most important aspect and both are elemental to that end

One thing I forgot to mention in my diatribe above was the limited value of the newer prepainted photo etch in certain circumstances. On 1/32 stuff I can see how you might not want to use it on even instrument panels, but for 1/48th I think it does work. However, when you get, say, a throttle quadrant, where you have to fold a bit of PE concertina style 5 times, the end result looks like what it is: a folded bit of sheet painted on one end, with the edges all needing painting and a little 2d lever bit sticking out, which also needs paining on the edges to match the paint on the rest of it. That's just nuts. The same goes for the grab handles, ejection seat pull rings and so forth. They are beautifully rendered with the stripes etc, except that you are then forced to try and paint the edges if you want to disguise the very obvious shiny bits left when you folded them over.

Something to take into account is the availability of some of the products; the debonder quoted in Chuck's tutorial is sadly not available here in Australia, and I only have Future, Gator's Grip plus a myriad of little tools and bits and bobs because I ask for them to be brought to me by visitors. That is not an excuse - people have made PE work with a lot less that I am privileged to have, but obviously having the right tools will also help where skill level is not as high.

For me the PITA factor versus the reward means PE will be limited to parts where there is a great difference to the model that can't be achieved by other means with a little work. Same goes for resin, but to a lesser degree, as the quite brilliant masters created out there by the likes of Zactomodels, Eduard and Aires to name a few can enhance a model way out of proportion to the effort put in. But I won't put it in if I can't see it afterwards, and if I have to re-invent or redesign the kit to make it fit it becomes self defeating. Just because it exists doesn't mean it has to be used

But as I said before, that's my view and plenty of examples exist where it is obvious that people have worked miracles with it all!

Les

[Blue73]

Hi Les,

I bought that Great Planes debonder from eBay-us. No problems having it shipped here.

Cheers

John

[vh-bob]

I am a 1/72 modeller of advanced years and while I have no problem with people purchasing resin and etched aftermarket parts if they want them, my pet hate is with the usually Czech companies who's excellent kits contain resin and etch bits with no injection moulded equivalent. Take for example the otherwise first class RS Junkers 86 P, the etched flap hinges with which the prominent trailing flaps common to many Junkers types are a joke. To me they render what is in this country an $80.00 kit, unbuildable. As for resin besides it's hazardous properties the majority of the parts I have seen included in kits are of components where injection moulded would do very nicely. Resin cowlings and mixed media props with separate blades are he work of some sadist. So after market for those who want it by all means but lets have styrene included for the rest of us who cant manage. I was amazed when recently discussing this with he owner of our best model shop when he said that only a tiny fraction of his customers use aftermarket decals let alone resin and brass. So how about considering those of us who just want to build the best model we can "out of the box" and provide enough useable parts to do so.

I feel better now, Happy Easter,

Trev.

[Joel_W]

Trev,

Eduard does indeed follow that philosophy. Plastic molded parts are included along with Resin & PE replacements as upgrades. You'll find that in their Profipack and limited edition run kits, while their Weekend series contains only injected molded parts of the same exact model. Needless to say I'm a big fan of Eduard's later offerings.

Joel

[toadwbg]

Chuck for President. That was a great tutorial.

[vh-bob]

Joel

Glad to hear that someone provides alternate parts but unfortunately it is the likes of RS , Valom Azure and Special Hobby etc that make many of the kits that I would really like to build that seem to be in love with etched brass and resin. As I have dozens of them, I had best come to terms with the fact that I am out of step with todays modellers and try to overcome my bias, but there is nothing worse than turning a beautifully produced kit that you have waited years for someone to release and turning it into a disaster.

Injection moulding rules

Trev. (vh-bob)

[Ryan Hothersall]

Joel

Glad to hear that someone provides alternate parts but unfortunately it is the likes of RS , Valom Azure and Special Hobby etc that make many of the kits that I would really like to build that seem to be in love with etched brass and resin. As I have dozens of them, I had best come to terms with the fact that I am out of step with todays modellers and try to overcome my bias, but there is nothing worse than turning a beautifully produced kit that you have waited years for someone to release and turning it into a disaster.

Injection moulding rules

Trev. (vh-bob)

I agree with trev's comments above, in that not all of us want to super detail what we build.

Trev and I do quite a bit of building together so I've seen some of the kits he has wanted to build, but has been put off by the etch and resin parts.

I'm not totally against resin, as it does allow different variants of an aircraft to be built. For example, using the resin recon nose to make a recon version of a MiG-25.

[huntermountain]

3) Do you really want to build a model that looks identical to everybody else? That's one of the main reasons for using aftermarket parts. They make your model unique, or at least more interesting to look at.

Chuck

On reading this from someone like you, Chuck, my first thought was that you (and other skilled modellers like you) are living proof that not every model comes out identical. Thinking away all aftermarket on your 'Kicked up a notch' builds still leaves us with unique models, purely because of your skills. I'm not saying I'd never use some aftermarket part to correct a big problem, but still, I aim to make better models through advancing my skills. On the other hand, I'm genetically programmed to oppose tiny PE stuff: I'm sausage fingered and ham fisted.

[Joel_W]

On reading this from someone like you, Chuck, my first thought was that you (and other skilled modellers like you) are living proof that not every model comes out identical. Thinking away all aftermarket on your 'Kicked up a notch' builds still leaves us with unique models, purely because of your skills. I'm not saying I'd never use some aftermarket part to correct a big problem, but still, I aim to make better models through advancing my skills. On the other hand, I'm genetically programmed to oppose tiny PE stuff: I'm sausage fingered and ham fisted.

My personal concept of why one uses commercially available resin and PE parts is to further detail a model to the level they want it to be above what the manufacture has offered in the kit. But those details are readily available to everyone willing to pay for them. So in that general sense, they don't provide the modeler with a venue to create a model that is unique from others building the same kit with the same skills and mind set. Detailing by making ones own parts, cutting open and repositioning flying surfaces, hatches, latches, etc. creates a unique model that few others are or would create that one of replica.

For me, it's all about the final presentation of the model. In other words how it looks and is viewed from a foot or two away in my display case. While one might ask to look into the cockpit, no one has ever asked me to turn the model over to peer into the wheel wells, hence I'm getting away from much of that detailing which by my definition is a poor use of my modeling recourses, time, and money.

As I've said, that's my philosophy. I'm not in club, and no longer enter IPMS regional and national contests, so I'm strictly building for myself, not to a pre-set list of standards that will measure my build to those other models in the same category.

Joel

[11bee]

I tend to go avoid simple OOB builds and add at least some enhancements to each kit. At minimum, aftermarket decals and some scratchbuilt details. On occasion, I'll go the whole hog and add resin cockpits, PE, etc, etc. However, I've noted that not all the aftermarket stuff is really worth it. Some parts are just simple copies of kit parts or (especially in the case of PE), the aren't any better than the kit part they are supposed to replace.

One thing I've found is that when I look back, the models that gave me the highest satisfaction were the ones that I did most/all of upgrades by scratchbuilding. You can do some pretty impressive work with nothing more than odds and ends from your spares box, a couple of dollars worth of plastic sheet and some stretched sprue.

[Joe Hegedus]

For me, it's all about the final presentation of the model. In other words how it looks and is viewed from a foot or two away in my display case. While one might ask to look into the cockpit, no one has ever asked me to turn the model over to peer into the wheel wells, hence I'm getting away from much of that detailing which by my definition is a poor use of my modeling recourses, time, and money.

As I've said, that's my philosophy. I'm not in club, and no longer enter IPMS regional and national contests, so I'm strictly building for myself, not to a pre-set list of standards that will measure my build to those other models in the same category.

Joel

A-FRIKKEN-MEN, Joel.

[lesthegringo]

Months after writing this first post, I am back to report what I can only describe as a deteriorating relationship with PE. Stuff in the cockpit is still more or less OK, but I have to say that I have had it with a set for Russian weapons. This came with a set of stuff so was not a specific purchase.

Following on from the previous discussion, I bought some Gators Grip glue, which I have to say is much nicer to use than cyano, and I have a PE folding tool. Even so, who is trying to fool who? The bits look like slabs of metal blobbed onto the outside and are a significant proportion of the thickness of the missiles onto which I am trying to persuade them to cling.

To all those that make it work, I admire your efforts, but in keeping with the concept that this is supposed to be fun, and you are doing this to achieve a result you are happy with, I'm seeking a divorce! The PE can keep the Cyano and the folding tool, I won't contest it.

Cheers

[thegoodsgt]

I'm with you. Photoetch is tedious, and I'm not convinced it adds that much to the overall impact of the finished model. For example, as I think about my favorite models at the IPMS Nats this summer, I couldn't tell you whether they had photoetch or not. And the other dirty little secret about photoetch is how much time it adds to a build. A model that might have taken me 20 hours to build now takes 25 or 30 hours.

Steven Brown

Scale Model Soup

[galileo1]

I don't know, I like to work with all mediums, being resin, PE, plastic sheet, and even vacform. I might be one of a handful but I absolutely enjoy the construction process. I love to add every little detail (aftermarket or what I make myself) to almost every build. I don't do it to show it off to anyone or enter in to contests but as long as I know it's there, I'm happy with it.

Rob

[chuck540z3]

I'm with you. Photoetch is tedious, and I'm not convinced it adds that much to the overall impact of the finished model. For example, as I think about my favorite models at the IPMS Nats this summer, I couldn't tell you whether they had photoetch or not. And the other dirty little secret about photoetch is how much time it adds to a build. A model that might have taken me 20 hours to build now takes 25 or 30 hours.

Steven Brown

Scale Model Soup

To each their own, but I think there are many parts that look much better with PE, because you just can't replicate the same thinness and detail with plastic. Here are two examples on my current P-38 build. The PE looks way better than the kit parts and it will add significantly to the overall look when finished.

As far as it being tedious and taking a bit more time, what's your rush? The picky work is something that I enjoy, rather than loathe. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, with practice, the use of PE becomes routine after awhile.

Edited October 14, 2015 by chuck540z3

[82Whitey51]

I like p/e and resin. But I have limited myself to how much I use it, mainly in the interest of completing a kit. I used to try and buy as much aftermarket as was available for any given kit. now, I add items only if the kit item is totally off or void of detail.

I like some p/e cockpit details (like the old Reheat generic stuff) but designated sets for a specific aircraft I'll tend to avoid. I recently used the Eduard color cockpit set for the C-2A COD and the end result is really just a step above using decals. I'll use resin instead if available. Every so often a complete resin replacement cockpit but more often than not just a seat.

If you're going to use p/e...invest in the available tools to properly cut, bend and shape it.

Edited October 14, 2015 by 82Whitey51