Falcon053 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 So, I got this and stared right away thinking I can finally build the 'D that I got my ride in several years back. Got out a Tamiya kit and starting cutting resin and slapped the Forward section to the upper wing section, and the lineup was really good, some minor gaps which are probably my fault. When I went to put the lower fuselage to the top, it wouldn't line up. Humm, I thought I was doing something wrong, fiddled with it and fiddled more, but no go, it was like the top part was too short. Pulled out another 'C kit I had started and compared the two...the resin is like 2mm too short! I had bought two of the conversion kits and did a comparison and its even shorter!!! So now I have to figure out a good solution. Anybody else working on this having the same issues? It's probably fixable with some work, but now it's back to hopping someday Tamiya pulls their head out and does that 'D kit. Duane Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graves_09 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Any pics you can share? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I have the set as well. The front and rear cockpits are direct copies from Tamiya. Not good enough in my opinion. Not for the price paid at Telford anyway. I haven’t yet tried to line it up to the Tamiya kit but I will be tomorrow. I will report back then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon053 Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 I'll try and get some pictures up tonight. It's like the rear part of the cockpit lines up really well with the kit fuselage, but as it goes forward towards the nose it gets shorter. I have been looking at where the best place to do a cut and I think its right at the rear bulkhead of the front cockpit. There is a panel line that should match up on the upper and lower fuselages and its off there, so the issue is around the second cockpit I think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoFo Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Resin shrinks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkmouth Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Resin shrinks. True, but some resin shrinks far less than others. It seems that low quality resin is in use here. The best resins have negligible shrinkage. regards, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Resin shrinks. Then what would be the point of selling it as an aftermarket product if this was not taken into consideration? That would be business suicide. If they know the shrinkage rate then they should take it into account and make the item larger by that percentage. Eduard Brassin does this but admittedly Aires does not seem to as much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Then what would be the point of selling it as an aftermarket product if this was not taken into consideration? That would be business suicide. I don't know, people seem to lap up Aires stuff like kittens lap up fresh cream... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jefropas Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Probably still cheaper to kill a Hasegawa 2-holer, and less headache... Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jester292 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 But Aires isn't too small, it's too big. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
viper730 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I can't work on mine yet still healing up from surgery I was hesitant to buy it but I REALLY Wanted to have a killer "D" so I cracked open the wallet and purchased one. I will be pretty PO'd if I wasted my money. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoFo Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Then what would be the point of selling it as an aftermarket product if this was not taken into consideration? That would be business suicide. If they know the shrinkage rate then they should take it into account and make the item larger by that percentage. Eduard Brassin does this but admittedly Aires does not seem to as much. It's not that simple. Resin can shrink at different rates based on a number of factors. Could be a poor mix, could be an old batch, could be too hot, could be too cold... It's more art than science. I suspect that if you measured a dozen conversions, they'd all be slightly different. Most would be pretty close to the same length, but a couple would probably be noticeably short. In fact, years ago there was a review of a resin F-4 radome from AirDoc (now Wingman) where the reviewer noted that the first set they test fitted was grossly undersized, but the next was okay. Oversized masters aren't always possible. Really, they're only possible when you're building something from scratch. I was under the impression that the conversion was basically just a re-cast of the Kinetic upper fuselage, in which case, you're stuck with what the kit gives you. That doesn't excuse the part. And I'd suggest contacting Wingman for a replacement (or refund). But I'm not shocked to hear that a casting is noticeably short. Also: it's probably not a great idea to hold Eduard up as a bastion of geometric precision. Nice detail, crisp castings, but still prone to shrinkage and dimensional issues. Some of that is down to poor research and inaccurate masters, but they're just as prone to shrinkage as anyone else. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crazy Snap Captain Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Resin shrinks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jinxter13 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Humm, I thought I was doing something wrong, fiddled with it and fiddled more, but no go, it was like the top part was too short. Pulled out another 'C kit I had started and compared the two...the resin is like 2mm too short! I had bought two of the conversion kits and did a comparison and its even shorter!!! This gives me cause, it sounded too good. I'm glad I didn't jump too fast....I'll settle for a Kinetic offering and avoid the inner head thumping, save some moolah and be happy. Maybe his QA folks missed a few...that happens, but two with that much difference ..OH OH!!!!. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tobiK Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Have you contacted Wingman models already and told them about that (serious) problem? To let us know about frustration and a problem is the one step, to search for a solution may be be the next? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Roof Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) Nevermind Edited February 12, 2016 by Dave Roof Quote Link to post Share on other sites
titan8251 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Man, I am glad I didn't get one right away. Kinda a bummer really. I have both Tamiya and Kinetic F-16's, I wonder why you cant just add the kinetic two seat forward fuselage to the Tamiya kit? Maybe ill take a look after work and Dave, your kit is going out as soon as I find the box I had to ship it. Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
adamitri Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Bummer.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 My fix...keep waiting for Tamiya to do one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Roof Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) Disregard Edited February 12, 2016 by Dave Roof Quote Link to post Share on other sites
viper730 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) Good to know, at least they look like they will to try and correct it and If not...then do the right thing and refund the money we spent. Thanks Dave!! Edited February 11, 2016 by viper730 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 "Hi Dave! Thank you much for your feedback. I really do appreciate your feedback. I am very sorry to hear that we have such a biiig problem – yes it sucks big time!!! I already approached Ra'anan who designed the kit to find out what went wrong. I really cannot say from the image if it is shrinkage or another problem. Shrinkage usually takes place in all directions and not only on a specific portion. Anyway, we are on the case. I very sorry for causing this kind of trouble – if we won't find a solution to fix it we are going to reimburse all our customers that bought this kit. Cheers Andreas" Hopefully they suspend sales until they figure out the problem...so they don't end up with further customers who are upset. As they stated, it can't be a shrinkage issue, this is just something that got missed somehow. You'd think they'd pull one from random and build it prior to releasing them for sale to avoid this kind of stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon053 Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 I'm having problems with uploading pictures, but I went ahead and said F it and cut where I hope will work. I used some sheet styrene made fillers until the upper and lower parts are lined up (modeling 101). If Wingman does come out with a fix one way or another, the other set is the worse of the two it looks like. Thanks Dave for letting us all know what you heard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Roof Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) No Bueno Edited February 12, 2016 by Dave Roof Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Roof Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) No Mas Edited February 12, 2016 by Dave Roof Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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