Question about Future

[Skinny_Mike]

I have a question about Future as a gloss coat. I have generally had a pretty rocky relationship with future anyway, but lately it seems to have gotten worse. My bottle is roughly 5 years old and has been stored in the garage, where temps range from 120°F to 30°F. I'm just wondering does future go bad?

Thanks for the help!

Mike

[Janissary]

I bought my bottle in 2006 and still as good as it was the first day. Mine has not seen that much temperature difference, but if I were to guess (and just a guess), I would say the issues you might be having are probably due to something else (the rocky relationship you mentioned makes me think that way). Can you explain the issues you are having? Maybe we can help with that info.

[Cubs2jets]

I'm afraid it doesn't bode well for you if your future has gone bad.

A visit to a reader and advisor may be in order to find good karma.

C2j

[balls47]

I'm with Janissary, I have 3 bottles of Future, one for dipping clear parts, one for brushing, and one for airbrushing. It started to get harder to find, so I made sure I had enough. I know that one bottle is probably 10 years old, and the others are at least 4 or 5 years old. They are all in great shape. I keep them in the basement in my workshop. They are stored in a cool, dry place where not much light gets to them.

[Skinny_Mike]

So the basic problem I'm having is that I'm just not getting a very glossy coat after 2 to 3 applications. And this is really only started to happen on my last couple of builds. Here is what I did on my last model:

1. Primer Coat, usually Tamiya primer out of the rattle can. Last build was Ammo by Mig Black

2. Paint, This time, MM Enamals (I've heard that Future and Gunze Mr. Color don't seem to like each other)

3. Future, let dry overnight then spray a second coat. I don't thin it with anything and I spray between 15 and 20 psi

4. Decals

5. Future Coat

6. Wash

7. Flat Coat

This was the process that has worked for me, once I got past all the teething problems. The result this time was silvered decals, and the wash didn't run along the panel lines etc. like you would expect.

[balls47]

I think I know what your problem may be. Future not only has to dry, it has to cure. It can be handled in two or three hours, but it takes much longer to cure.

I give Future at least 48 hours to cure(at minimum), and usually wait at least 3 days. I have never had a problem with it.

[Janissary]

Typically, silvering decals combined with the wash not flowing in the panels is a sign of the surface being to rough. From your description, my guess is either: (1) The underlying primer + paint may not be as smooth as you think it was, or (2) future was too dry before it hit the surface (applied too far from the model, or in a dry climate). I suspect (1) is more likely than (2). A third option is, yes the future has gone bad, but I still think this is highly unlikely.

I have had flat MM enamels actually end up in rather dusty/rough finishes (especially in concave regions of the model where there is airbrush turbulence). MM enamels seem to be the main difference compared to your previous applications, so that supports my guess that (1) is the culprit. I try to shoot for a semi-gloss, silky smooth paint job (like how an eye glass cleaning cloth feels to the fingers). I have found Gunze acrylics to be best for this as they are semi gloss. If I am spraying Tamiya flats, I usually add a little bit of Tamiya's gloss coat into the a/b to make it smoother.

Also future works fine over Gunze acrylics or their lacquer Mr. Color paints. There should be no problems there.

[Skinny_Mike]

So the more I think about it and the more I experiment, I think that there are a combination of things at hand here. First off, I tried a new primer, Ammo of Mig Black. And while it sprayed nicely, it did not leave a very smooth surface. The MM enamels were the same way. I don't know if that is a result of the primer under the paint or of the paint itself. I know its not because of a dry environment though, as I live in Florida, average relative humidity is in the 75% to 80% region.

I conducted an experiment on the kit itself. On the remaining part, I sprayed the MM paint directly on the plastic, used Testers GlossCote from the rattle can to give a close coat, then applied the decal. That particular decal had a significant amount of carrier film to actual markings, so if there was a high risk of silvering, that would have been a good test. Decal got a bath in Solvate instead of MicroSol. After letting the decal sit overnight, I applied another GlossCote followed by a flat coat. There is no silvering at all. (Hope that makes sense)

So I really think that my problem here was really in the preparation and probably on me more then anything. I'll just need to go back to my goto primers: Tamiya and Mr. Surfacer for now. I'm still on the fence about the future!

Thanks everyone for the help and the great feedback. You all helped me and hopefully we helped some others as well.

Thanks

Mike

[chuck540z3]

If I might chime in, what kind of MM enamel are you using? If it's flat, which is likely, you should always sand the finish so that it is smooth with 1500-2000 grit sandpaper or similar polishing cloths, before applying Future. Future sprayed on a flat finish will still be a bit too rough for decals in most cases.

Having said all that, I don't use Future any more. Tamiya X-22 acrylic clear gloss is the ticket for me these days. It dries quicker and harder than Future and you never have to worry about drips.

[plasticWerks_JL]

If I might chime in, what kind of MM enamel are you using? If it's flat, which is likely, you should always sand the finish so that it is smooth with 1500-2000 grit sandpaper or similar polishing cloths, before applying Future. Future sprayed on a flat finish will still be a bit too rough for decals in most cases.

Having said all that, I don't use Future any more. Tamiya X-22 acrylic clear gloss is the ticket for me these days. It dries quicker and harder than Future and you never have to worry about drips.

Chuck, how many coats of X-22 are you typically using, and how long are you letting it cure? I haven't had much luck with any other acrylic gloss besides future. Thanks

-JL

EDIT: Cheapskate trick I learned online: I polish bare plastic (after filling seams, etc) and dried paint with paper coffee filters from the supermarket, and clean up with a lint-removing cloth. Under $3 gets a whole pack, and they work great for a final polish after going through progressively finer sandpaper.

Edited April 7, 2016 by plasticWerks_JL

[Skinny_Mike]

I've had really good luck with Tamiya clear over NMF, but nowhere else. It's time to experiment a little more.

Chuck, I am going to start polishing after the paint coats. I think that's the next step in my progression as a modeler.

Thanks for the help guys, I do appreciate it.

Mike

[chuck540z3]

Chuck, how many coats of X-22 are you typically using, and how long are you letting it cure? I haven't had much luck with any other acrylic gloss besides future. Thanks

-JL

Two thin coats. After the first coat, as with Future, you will get the inevitable crap sticking to the finish, so after repairs I spray another "touch-up coat", which also attends to areas that don't have enough of a coat the first time. What I really like about X-22 is that you can keep spraying without much fear of the finish running if you're careful, which is always a risk with Future on vertical surfaces like the sides of a fuselage. It dries super quickly too and the finish is harder than Future.

Here's an example on my last build prior to decals.

After decals, I seal them in with an additional coat, but only over the decals because it blends in without a ridge.

[galileo1]

Chuck, do you thin the X-22? If so, with what? I've been trying to experiment with X-22 to see how it works.

Thanks!

Rob

[chuck540z3]

Chuck, do you thin the X-22? If so, with what? I've been trying to experiment with X-22 to see how it works.

Thanks!

Rob

Good point Rob, yes I do. As with all Tamiya paints- lacquer or acrylic- I thin the X-22 with about 35-50% of the yellow capped "Tamiya Lacquer Thinner", to make it spray finer and avoid sputtering at low spraying pressures. This "lacquer thinner", which is a synthetic, is used by many of my local modeling friends who use Tamiya acrylics exclusively and their paint jobs are second to none.