MAC/ANG Euro 1 Color Question

[Trigger]

Alright, I know that the MAC Euro 1 scheme was 34092 green, 34102 green and 36118 gray with the gray underneath. But I've seen the 34092 green either partially or completely replaced by a very dark color and I can't tell if it's faded black or 34031 (the color the US Army paints their helicopters) or a dark gray or what...

Hoping someone here can shed some light on this for me.

[EF]

I think FS34050 Black Green is a closer match.

And that's what I tried to replicate on my 1/144 model:

[Mark S.]

Trigger:

Think it's 34079 Dark Green. Read somewhere that they started incorrectly painting C-5's with 34079 before they realized the spec was 34092.

Mark

[Trigger]

Mark

I never heard about that incident, but it doesn't surprise me. I've thought it might be 34079 too, but compare the above pix to this shot of a SEA-scheme F-4:

There's just way too much contrast between the colors on that Herk and Galaxy compard to the greens on the Phantom where we know it's 34102 & 34079.

Good looking C-5 EF!

Oh yeah - that looks like the dark color on Swedish fighter's splinter camouflage! Why didn't I think of that? I think there's something like that in the Tamiya or expanded Model Master line.

Thanks!

Edited July 11, 2006 by Trigger74

[Mark S.]

Trigger:

I'll try to look it up tonight when I get home. As for the color differences IMHO it can be attributed to lighting conditions, paint formulation differences between vendors and age of the paint. EF might be right. It seems there is much variability in paint. When you repaint a car that is several years old they modify the color to account for the oxidation and sun fading. Think the flat colors used by the military for what ever reason are less stable under UV light than the high gloss commerical paints. Not saying I'm right just throwing out some possibilities.

That grey on the C-130 looks lighter than gunship grey as well. Faded or another color?

The "Zinc Chromate Syndrome"

Mark

[sweep295]

hi

the origonal euro 1 lizard camo was dark greyFS36081 greenFS34102 and green34092 the very dark grey was later replaced by grey FS36118 maybe the dark grey has been left on these aircraft replacing one of the greens ?

just my twobobs worth on the topic

neil

[Trigger]

As for the color differences IMHO it can be attributed to lighting conditions, paint formulation differences between vendors and age of the paint.

But those situations happen quite a bit and yet there's no discussion about drastic differences in the 36118 on F-16s. If it's a error, as you suggest, then would it be that widespread? Did the Air Force really take delivery of that much paint that was screwed up, only to replace it later as they went?

EF might be right. It seems there is much variability in paint. When you repaint a car that is several years old they modify the color to account for the oxidation and sun fading. Think the flat colors used by the military for what ever reason are less stable under UV light than the high gloss commerical paints. Not saying I'm right just throwing out some possibilities.

That grey on the C-130 looks lighter than gunship grey as well. Faded or another color?

The "Zinc Chromate Syndrome" ;)

If it weren't so widespread, I think you'd be onto something.

I think the lightness of the gray can be attributed to one (or all) of these three:

- It looks lighter than it really is next to the dark color

- paint has faded some. I agree that military paints are formulated for concelement, not longevity in UV light

- different batches of paint have slightly different shades. Look at Ghost Gray F-15s before and after Desert Storm, there's a slight, but noticeable difference in the colors even though they're still spec'd the same under the Compass Ghost scheme

[terryt]

This color chart might help:

It seems MAC used a different grey then the USAFE units.

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/s...orcharts_us.htm

Edited July 12, 2006 by terryt

[Trigger]

Yeah, there were a lot of variations on the European 1 camouflage. MAC used 36118 gunship gray, 34102 medium green, and 34092 dark green. These colors were also used on Air Force helicopters (even up to today in the case of some HH-60Gs and UH-1Ns). MAC aircraft had 36118 undersides whereas the helicopters wore wraparound schemes.

In the 1980s and early 90s, SAC used 36118 gray, 36081 gray and 34086 green, with the two grays underneath and the green and 36081 on the tops of their B-1Bs, B-52G/H and FB-111s.

TAC had the most variations. Basic colors were 36081 dark gray, 34102 medium gray and 34092 dark green. A-10s, OV-10 broncos, A-37s, the F-15E prototype (F-15B 71-291) and a handful of F-16s wore those colors.

However, the F-4 fleet simply replaced the tan from the SEA scheme with 36081, resulting in a scheme of 36081, 34102 and 34079.

A-7Ds wore a two-color Euro1 scheme of 34079 and 36081.

All the TAC Euro 1 schemes were wraparound but their F-111D/E/F Aardvarks never wore European 1, jumping straight from SEA to overall ACC gray (36118) before their retirement in the early to mid-90s.

The IPMS site is great, but it, like Don Color, doesn't address that dark fourth color sometimes seen on MAC and helicopter Euro 1 painted aircraft, specifically that C-130 in my first post. The Tennessee ANG flew in those colors in the 80s and that's what I'm wanting to reproduce

[Trigger]

Update: this mystery color in question got into the TAC/USAFE paint supplies too it seems...

OV-10A, REFORGER 82

[Mark S.]

Trigger:

Did you ever find the correct paint numbers for the C-130 in question? Wondering if the grey is actually 36173 AMC Grey? The dark green being close to the German "black green"?

Mark

[Trigger]

Trigger:

Did you ever find the correct paint numbers for the C-130 in question? Wondering if the grey is actually 36173 AMC Grey? The dark green being close to the German "black green"?

Mark

Holy thread revival Batman!

I never got an answer about the dark green in question. I was planning on using a German black green from the Tamiya line of rattle cans. Even though everything I've seen about MAC Euro1 says the gray is 36118, in reality, most of the time the gray looks way lighter than that. I was thinking of using 36231 (Dark Gull Gray), but 36173 could work too. The C-5 in the second pic of my original post however, that looks like 36118 gray to me.

Edited February 4, 2007 by Trigger

[Mark S.]

Trigger:

The reason I revived the thread. Found a picture in the July 1995 issue of Air Force magazine in which there is a crowded ramp at Pope containing C-130's of the Euro One, the scheme you mention and the AMC grey one. Also found a pic with a JASDF C-130 with the same paint. Just wondering if it's a JASDF scheme?

Mark

[Trigger]

Trigger:

The reason I revived the thread. Found a picture in the July 1995 issue of Air Force magazine in which there is a crowded ramp at Pope containing C-130's of the Euro One, the scheme you mention and the AMC grey one. Also found a pic with a JASDF C-130 with the same paint. Just wondering if it's a JASDF scheme?

Mark

Interesting; sounds like an airlift rodeo. Can you send me a scan of the pic?

Edited February 6, 2007 by Trigger