EWZ Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Hi guys, I'm buildling Italeri's Mig-29UB in NVA/DDR colours. The colour/painting guide mentions: Military Brown (FS30117) = Humbrol 186 Field Green (FS34097) = Humbrol 105 European Green (FS34092) = Humbrol 149 So far ok, but then I started looking for reference photo's for my '148' and found a few images. And if you look at them It looks like it has to tones of brown, the mentioned 186 (the light brown) and a more darker brown which could be Humbrol's 180, and the European green '105' I know single seater :) Can anyone help me out? Is it just the pictures and the combination of sushine which makes me think it has two brown tints??? :huh: Cheers Evert Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Diego Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Hi, The NVA MiG-29 was camouflaged in the so called "Middle european scheme" consisting in two greens, tan and brown. This scheme, applied individually on each airframe, was found on NVA and Czech and Slovak Fulcrums. The Czech Fulcrums sold to Poland also flew during a certain time in this original camo before being repaited in the now standard "NATO scheme". The colors of this camo were: Dark Brown - Hu98 Tan - Hu187 Middle Green - Hu 78 Dark Green - Hu-116 Here a link to a Polish AF Fulcrum in this scheme: http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/ISL/...ABG/HD48013.htm and the MiG-29UB: http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/ISL/...B-B/HD48015.htm As the MiG-29UB are concerned, only "black 148" had the 4 tone camo, the other two had the classic grey-green "Fulcrum scheme" applied. Take care, the scheme depicted on the Italeri instructions is full of errors! Cheers Diego Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chek Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 I'm not totally familiar with WWII stuff, but those DDR Fulcrum schemes definitely have the look of late Luftwaffe colours - the dark brown has a definite braunviolett tone in sunlight, and the greens also look like the 80-series late war ones. Not that I'm suggesting there were 50 years worth of left over stocks available at the end of the war... But compared to the more conventional brown tones used by Russian MiG's, I was going to see how late-war Luftwaffe colours looked when I get to my DDR ship. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EWZ Posted July 24, 2006 Author Share Posted July 24, 2006 Hi,The NVA MiG-29 was camouflaged in the so called "Middle european scheme" consisting in two greens, tan and brown. This scheme, applied individually on each airframe, was found on NVA and Czech and Slovak Fulcrums. The Czech Fulcrums sold to Poland also flew during a certain time in this original camo before being repaited in the now standard "NATO scheme". The colors of this camo were: Dark Brown - Hu98 Tan - Hu187 Middle Green - Hu 78 Dark Green - Hu-116 Here a link to a Polish AF Fulcrum in this scheme: http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/ISL/...ABG/HD48013.htm and the MiG-29UB: http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/ISL/...B-B/HD48015.htm As the MiG-29UB are concerned, only "black 148" had the 4 tone camo, the other two had the classic grey-green "Fulcrum scheme" applied. Take care, the scheme depicted on the Italeri instructions is full of errors! Cheers Diego Diego, Thanks for the heads up, I'm indeed planning to build 'Black 148'. I'll have a look at the provided links. Cheers Evert Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pommie Commie Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Well............you learn something every day! I could havew sworn an ex-NVA person told me they only painted the UBs in the 2 grey scheme! Damn........now I have to decide, Ukraine or German! Paul in NZ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EWZ Posted July 24, 2006 Author Share Posted July 24, 2006 Well............you learn something every day!I could havew sworn an ex-NVA person told me they only painted the UBs in the 2 grey scheme! Damn........now I have to decide, Ukraine or German! Paul in NZ Well if you need some reference Paul, I have about 140 DDR/NVA Mig-29 pictures on my harddisk Evert Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jan Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 (edited) so called "Middle european scheme" consisting in two greens, tan and brown. This scheme, applied individually on each airframe, was found on NVA and Czech and Slovak Fulcrums Diego, it seems to me, that "Middle european scheme" is a myth....look at the East German and Czechoslovak Fulcrums... and you will see the colours used are bit different, and the 'logic' of camo scheme is also different. Generally, NVA Fulcrums seems to be camoed with bit darker colours, and more browns were used True is, both East German and Czechoslovak camo schemes were applied individually on each airplane (pattern on each airplane was different), but this does not mean that East German and Czechoslovak schemes were the same. Just compare: machine in Czech AF colours: And NVA scheme: Edited July 25, 2006 by Jan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EWZ Posted September 2, 2006 Author Share Posted September 2, 2006 Hi again :wacko: I have a bit of a dilemma. I was looking closely at my mig-29UB (148) pictures...and found out that after the reunifcation, the scheme must have been changed? Look: This is begin 1991, where the new west-german serial is applied. If you look closely to the tail and compare it with............ There are two differences visible: 1. You can see the brown lines on the tail are different. 2. The brown lines on the right wing are different too?! As far as I know there was only one Mig-29UB painted in the camo, the others in the greyish scheme. All help is welcome Evert Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kingoalie Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 Hi Evert! As far as the camo changing, the only thing that looks to be done was the NVA symbol was painted over on the tail and the wing. I think that is why it looks like a whole new scheme. HTH, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 Yeah, and keep in mind there was no set "standard" camouflage...so there was some freedom as to the specific lines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ruud Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 Hoi, Wow, amazing what affect different film/conditions have on what the picture looks like. The colors look different, but the scheme matches up. Same plane, same scheme, different conditions. later Ruud Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EWZ Posted September 2, 2006 Author Share Posted September 2, 2006 Hi Evert!As far as the camo changing, the only thing that looks to be done was the NVA symbol was painted over on the tail and the wing. I think that is why it looks like a whole new scheme. HTH, John He John! Never thought of that, of course that's a logical reason! Which obviously means I have to make an old NVA one and a new Luftwaffe one B) Yeah, and keep in mind there was no set "standard" camouflage...so there was some freedom as to the specific lines. You're right about the free lines Andrew, though with this one, the 148 was the only UB (out of 4) camouflaged with these tints. Hoi,Wow, amazing what affect different film/conditions have on what the picture looks like. The colors look different, but the scheme matches up. Same plane, same scheme, different conditions. later Ruud Indeed Ruud, thought the same when I compared them. I think difference is a western camera/film in the 90's and a (probably russian) camera/film back in the 80's. Cheers Evert Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Linden Hill Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 Since I'm a a bit of student of the history of the NVA, I collected a fair amount of information on the East German MiG-29s over the years. A total of four MiG-29UBs were delivered to the NVA. They were Black 148 (later 29+22), 179 (29+23), 181 (29+24) and 185 (29+25). All were built in Gorky, and the first three were delivered in April 1988. 185 arrived in January 1989. 148 was the only UB delivered in the multi-colour camouflage scheme, those colours being specified in the GDR as Dunkelbraun, Hellbraun, Oliv, Helloliv and Hellblau. The reason that the other UBs were delivered in the standard two-tone VVS scheme is that the Gorky factory was having tremendous problems manufacturing enough UBs to satisfy demand, particularly export demand, for which they earned extra cash. After pressure from the GDR government, three UBs originally earmarked for the Soviet VVS were diverted from the production line for delivery to the NVA. The same Gorky factory also delivered the CSSR MiG-29s, so one has to assume that the paints used were identical. All NVA MiG-29s were delivered without national markings. These were applied in the GDR. Interestingly enough, the MiG-29s' NVA insignia were actually large water-slide decals; they were not spray-painted with stencils. More bizarrely, the NVA markings of 179 were different from all other East German MiG-29s. The yellow compass arms in the centre were spread more narrowly than in the other insignia. Finally, 181 had the honour of making the last ever NVA jet flight at shortly before 4pm on September 27, 1990. Boring, but all true! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EWZ Posted September 2, 2006 Author Share Posted September 2, 2006 Boring, but all true! It's not boring at all. Thank you very much for info, this just makes more sense to know why this one has the camouflage and the others not! Well if you have more info related to NVA Mig's........be my guest B) I'm planning to build: NVA's Mig-21,23 and 29 Evert Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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